"Alangara - New Dawn" - Persistent world

[Legacy_TheLastWarden]

               

Hello everyone, I recently bought this game on GOG.com and was looking for some interesting multiplayer servers to play on. This one caught my eye quite nicely, excited to try it out. Anyone else in here new to the game and would like to quest together?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Hello everyone, I recently bought this game on GOG.com and was looking for some interesting multiplayer servers to play on. This one caught my eye quite nicely, excited to try it out. Anyone else in here new to the game and would like to quest together?

 

Well, I'm not new to the game but I'd be happy to play with you.  That said, I would also strongly recommend you do some of the campaigns so you understand how the game works before entering a persistent world that assumes you know certain things.  Many of them can be done in multiplayer as well and I would be glad to do them with you and answer any questions if you're interested.

 

On that subject...

 

The original NWN campaign is okay, decent but not great.  It will take you from 1 to 17 or so in about 30-40 hours, multiplayer friendly.

 

Shadow of Undrentide is quite good, will take you from 1 to 13 or so in about 10-15 hours, multiplayer friendly.

 

Hordes of the Underdark is excellent, continues the story of SoU, will take you from 15 to 27 or so in about 15-20 hours, and is multiplayer friendly.

 

But there are also many amazing custom campaigns, quite a few of which are even better than HotU or other professionally produced games.  One of the ones I'd recommend you play initially is the Aielund Saga by Savant.  It's a very good "balanced" campaign -- interesting but not insane combat, story with a good chunk of actions, and excellent companions.  It can also be done in multiplayer.  It'll take you from 1 to 36 or so in about 25-35 hours.  Incidentally, I'm working on a tweaking of the Saga to fix some minor issues and improve a section or two...so you could wait a month or two for that.  Or play it twice!  Other excellent campaigns include (and I'm sure others may mention their favorites as well) Swordflight (pretty difficult combat, though), Hex Coda (different atmosphere and very story focused, little combat)), A Dance With Rogues (meant for rogue types, very sexually explicit, must play female character), and Sanctum of the Archmage (good mix of everything).

 

If you haven't, you should also install the 1.69 critical rebuild.

 

Now, back to Alangara...

 

Like I said, I'd be happy to play with you, I'll probably be around most of tonight.  Don't see anyone online at the moment, though.  I also convinced two friends to try it out who haven't played NWN in a long time, if they're around the three of us will be making new characters and playing together.  You'd be welcome to join us if you'd like (we will be talking on Mumble, though, a voice chat program so if you want to join us you might want to set that up or you'd miss out on a lot).  Tentative plan is one guy playing a sorcerer, another playing a cleric, and myself playing a strength based rogue/fighter hybrid.  So you could reasonably play any character type as we have the "bases" covered already.

 

Wouldn't mind playing another character either, already have a sorcerer and (future) weapon master as well who are level 5 and 6 respectively, if I recall correctly.

 

Sounds like Icywind may be playing as well but not sure what he'd be playing.

 

Going to respond to Icywind/Tarashon in a second post

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheLastWarden]

               

Wow thanks for this insightful post Magical. Would love to play either one of the original campaigns or a custom module with you. Are there any custom campaigns that you haven't played that you would be interested in cooping? You're right that I should start there instead of one of these persistent worlds, would make the whole process a lot smoother.

 

On that note do you happen to have a steam account, would make communication much easier.

 

Thanks again!

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Wound up catching Tarashon in-game and had an excellent discussion with him about a lot of stuff.

 

Are there any custom campaigns that you haven't played that you would be interested in cooping? You're right that I should start there instead of one of these persistent worlds, would make the whole process a lot smoother.

 

None of the custom campaigns which I haven't played yet but are on my list (aka, there are enough out there that I'm sure there's more campaigns I'd like that I haven't found yet) would be multiplayer friendly, sadly.  One of the three official ones or Aielund would be recommendation to start -- most of the other multiplayer campaigns I've played have been mostly story heavy and thus wouldn't teach you very much about the basic NWN mechanics.

 

Note that you don't have to wait until you finish an entire campaign to start on a PW, but should probably at least learn the basics.

 

On that note do you happen to have a steam account, would make communication much easier.

 

Add Balkoth, I'll be the one who's been playing Civ V and Left 4 Dead 2 a lot lately.  Also own Mass Effect (2), Dragon Age, Half Life (2), Team Fortress 2, etc.  Hopefully it should be clear which is the right one based on that.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheLastWarden]

               

Alrighty pretty sure I sent the friend request to the right Balkoth, my steam name is the same as on here.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

MM: I think I agree with Tarashon about the RP aspect of the game. All the best RP servers I've been on were good because of the players, not because there was some underlying storyline. If I want to follow a line of quests guiding me in one set direction, I will play a single player mod.

 

While that's true, the point is that an underlying storyline is more immersive and conducive to RP than "K, go kill the level 1 bandits in that zone.  Now go kill those level 3 bandits in the next zone.  Then there's a cave of level 5 bandits.  Then a zone of level 7 bandits.  And then level 9 bandits.  Why are there so many bandits?  Eh, just kill stuff and level, you're 25% of the way to 40 already."

 

That being said, not many people are trying new worlds these days, so new servers are very empty. So when it's just one player, there are only two options: hack n slash or explore. Both get boring fast alone.

 

That's actually not the case for me.  Exploring a world while hack'n'slashing my way through monsters on the way is fun for me as long as the zones are interesting and the monsters are engaging.  Some of my most memorable times on PWs were just me exploring by myself seeing what I could manage to find and successfully beat.

 

I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea, though.

 

To me it merely demonstrates that our questline needs more diversity and refinement. So albeit your point seemed to me to be the opposite your observations have shown me the pressing need for more complex stories - questwise that is

 

I would agree.  But would you agree that "Kill the goblins not just once, not twice, but three times" is not a more complex story?  Yes, the starting quests, at least, are simplistic.  But if you're going to alter that formula, do so in a way that makes it better, not worse!  Doing the exact same thing several more times is not story related.

 

2.Your concerns with magical missile really is overrated. Spells are tougher around here but there are also Means to protect yourself against them. And magical missile, impowered as it is, is NOT as powerfull as Isacs, or other highlevel spells...

 

It is more powerful than Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm, a level 4 spell.  And Maximized will do at least 180 damage at level 20, possibly more.  A Firebrand (one spell level higher) only does 105 damage for a single target (though it can AoE) but can be evaded, reflex saved, or more easily resisted/immunitied.

Maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill, given that in our conversation in-game you indicated people will have an insane amount of spell slots, but for a while, at least, it's going to be a very spammed spell.

 

B: Running invisible through the zones is fast and easy in all lowlevel areas.

 

Nearly every (all?) RP server I've seen doesn't want people to do that and I've seen some threaten to ban people over it.  Due it not being "proper" RP or consuming server resources.

 

You're fine with it, though?

 

Perhaps a certain item will open up options, perhaps a certain level, perhaps a currently unknown to the player quest needs be done etc etc and finally some thing might indeed just be openings for future content, or waiting for DM interaction. Please keep in mind that this World ran for years and is based upon years of inspiration from PNP campaigns. Many Things are not giving themselves up at first glance and the Inner Realms holds many a mystery.

 

Well, here's the problem, for example.  I killed the wererat mage in the sewers and got the key that opened the locked door near the beginning of that level.  It looked like a passage into the sewers so I could do the quest for the guy from the Roaring Dragon, but there's a wall of light or something that's pushing me back and won't let me pass -- similar to the cave portal.

 

So at this point I'm scratching my head:

 

1, is there another sewer entrance I'm supposed to find?

 

2, is there a hidden door or something I need to find?

 

3, is this the right place but it's "bugged" like the portal?

 

4, is this the right place but *I* completely missed something along the line?

 

And I don't know the answer to this.  For all I know that's cut/future content and I'm completely on the wrong track.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_icywind1980]

               

@MagicalMaster: I actually do like hack n slash mods very much, but again this really isn't one of them. Hack n Slash to me is purely about killing baddies. This place has atmosphere. While I agree that having an underlying storyline is great for RP, it's also completely unnecessary. How the player interacts with the environment is where real RP happens. It's hardly RP to play along with a series of quests, inputting a pre-selected series of answers. That's just playing a game. You have no control over your character or choices. I don't consider that RP. I guess we can disagree on that point.  Also, I'm not really sure how you're running into all these problems. I didn't encounter most of them. I agree that a lot of things could have been more clear and details added, but it's being updated. Consider it a work in progress. I will try to meet you in game, but I think our time zones are conflicting.

 

@TheLastWarden: I never started with the OC. My first NWN experience was with a PW. I don't know what you should do, but if playing a PW is what you want, than start with it if you'd like. Now for mods, I really didn't enjoy the OC at all. I loved SoU and HoTU wasn't bad, but frustrating that there were things left undone in it. I would recommend Mines of Twin Summit for a higher level experience instead of SoU. I've played through the Aielund Saga a few times now, but I guess I have an older buggy version, because some quests just don't work, and I need to use DM commands to complete it. I would say that if you wanted to try Alangara, just download CEP 2.6 (it's linked above) and give it a try. Starting on a PW won't ruin you for offline mods at all.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

I've played through the Aielund Saga a few times now, but I guess I have an older buggy version, because some quests just don't work, and I need to use DM commands to complete it.

 

You definitely have/had a really, really old version then.  None of the versions I've played or tested for Savant ever required DM commands to complete it.  Nor have I ever heard of anyone needing DM commands to complete it before you said that just now.

 

Heading to sleep, respond to the rest later.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Hack n Slash to me is purely about killing baddies. This place has atmosphere.

 

Perhaps we define the term differently but as I understand the term Hack'n'Slash is referring to combat as opposed to story element or puzzle elements (which may include things like locks and traps).  It has nothing to do with atmosphere or lack thereof -- can have a very atmospheric hack'n'slash module or a very boring and dull one.

 

It's hardly RP to play along with a series of quests, inputting a pre-selected series of answers. That's just playing a game. You have no control over your character or choices. I don't consider that RP. I guess we can disagree on that point. 

 

Would you say the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series don't have RP, then?  Inputting a pre-selected series of answers.

 

I mean, I do get that those games have a far larger number of choices than the quests in Alangara and what you choose affects the world state (unlike in Alangara or other PWs)...but it's still lacking direct control.

 

Also, I'm not really sure how you're running into all these problems. I didn't encounter most of them.

 

Beats me!

 

I will try to meet you in game, but I think our time zones are conflicting.

 

Except on the weekends most likely, I think.  If I get on at 5 PM my time it's midnight for you.

 

I loved SoU and HoTU wasn't bad, but frustrating that there were things left undone in it.

 

What are you referring to here?

 

I would recommend Mines of Twin Summit for a higher level experience instead of SoU.

 

That's a fairly good multiplayer campaign, but you aren't recommending he START with that, right?

 

Starting on a PW won't ruin you for offline mods at all.

 

My concern is the other way around, in a sense.  Thinking back through the PWs I've played on, trying to start on at least 75%+ of them would have been completely miserable (both RP and Action servers) since they assume a competency and understanding of the game that you would lack as a brand new player.

 

In all fairness, Alangara would be far more reasonable than most to start new on but I'm not sure I'd still recommend it.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_icywind1980]

               

Magical Master: I've never played Dragon Age nor Mass Effect, so I can't comment. Also, we're gonna have to agree to disagree with our definitions of role play and hack n slash (done with that topic now).

 

Regarding SoU, one cannot complete all three end quests (Illithids, The fallen bird people and the slaves). When you finish two of them, you are directed back to camp to fight the war.

 

I only posted about MTS as a replacement for SoU which you recommended.

 

To be honest, I think he should figure out how he wants to play on his own. Play lots of mods, or none at all. Playing mods isn't a requirement to playing a server, and while there are a lot of crappy ones out there, there are also lot's of nice ones (Alangara, the original CoN was fantastic, Soul Forge, Kharlindale Realms, Folderol (which I only stopped playing cos it got too difficult and boring to solo) Neversummer 3.5 and 4, Legion of Darkstar, etc. all of these are fantastic servers. None of them really require much more knowledge of playing than ''kill stuff, get gear, look around, and the occasional quest.'' The game pigeon holes new players into being a fighter and choosing recommend. On most servers, that really is more than enough. Beyond that, there are countless resources for new and old players alike to find out the more in depth classes. Also, so what if he dies and/or makes mistakes? There are so few perma death servers now and they're all advertised as such. In most servers, death really means nothing more than lost xp, gold and /or occasionally gear.

 

Lastly, I don't think we'll ever meet up in game. I don't _start_ playing games at midnight. I go to bed at midnight. (like I am now.)

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Also, we're gonna have to agree to disagree with our definitions of role play and hack n slash (done with that topic now).

 

Hang on a second.  Just to be clear, if you completed a quest in Alangara to find an artifact and then were given three options:

 

1, keep the artifact to use for yourself

2, gift it to a noble to make the upper class of the city like you

3, sell it and distribute the money amongst the poor

 

You would say that is not a role-playing choice?  I'm trying to convince you of anything, I'm trying to understand how you think.

 

Regarding SoU, one cannot complete all three end quests (Illithids, The fallen bird people and the slaves). When you finish two of them, you are directed back to camp to fight the war.

 

I am...really confused here.

 

There are no Illithids, fallen bird people, or slaves in SoU.  But there are in HotU so perhaps you meant that?

 

But in HotU there aren't three end quests, there's five -- also the beholders and Isle of the Maker.

 

And not only that, but you can in fact complete all five of them.

 

Neversummer 4....all of these are fantastic servers.

 

Say what?  I just came from trying NS4 (within the past week) and it was awful.

 

1, playing as a Lawful Good Aasimar sorcerer I was forced to align myself with evil dragons trying to enslave the world.  No other NPC faction would take me and I couldn't leave the initial zone without picking a faction.

2, I literally spent five levels doing nothing but killing rats.

3, of those rats, some would stealth and one shot a level 1 character or nearly one shot a level 2 character.  And you couldn't avoid them because, like I said, they were stealthed.

4, after finishing all the rat quests, the only way for me to continue with the main questline was to go kidnap and enslave beings.  No other choices.

 

So I would strongly disagree with your assertion that there are a lot of nice ones, I can only think of a handful that I'd potentially recommend.  And the fact we have such different conclusions indicates it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

 

The game pigeon holes new players into being a fighter and choosing recommend.

 

My first character ever was a sorcerer.  Not all new players are going to pick fighter, I'd even go so far as to say that the majority won't.  It'll probably be the most picked class to start overall, though.

 

Also, so what if he dies and/or makes mistakes?

 

One of NWN's biggest flaws is how difficult it is to get into initially.  And people trying new games don't have unlimited patience or learning desire.  If you're a new player and you try this NWN thing and you just keep dying and feel like you're completely lost, well, most people will simply say "Screw this, not worth it, I'm outta here."  They'll find another game to play instead.

 

It's not that they're lazy or something -- it's that the initial hurdle is so steep.

 

And maybe you're potentially thinking "Good riddance, then" or something (though I hope not) but I want to encourage new people to stick around, we have few enough people playing as it is.  And it'll only get harder to get fresh blood involved in the game.  If it takes giving them a helping hand to start until they're able to confidently stand on their own two feet, then I'm happy to do it as much as I can.

 

Lastly, I don't think we'll ever meet up in game. I don't _start_ playing games at midnight. I go to bed at midnight. (like I am now.)

 

Yes, hence why I mentioned the weekends specifically, because I can be online earlier on Saturday and Sunday.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_icywind1980]

               

Yeah I meant HoTU my bad. Replace HoTU with SoU. And I've never been able to complete them all. I get whisked away to the end battle after two-three of those sub quests.

 

No I don't consider those ''role play'' choices. I consider them options the game has given you. If a DM was on and playing the NPC there would be actual choices (if quality DM) where choices have consequences and matter. The only time choices like that can really be considered is in a single player mod where you are the hero of your own story (or villian), but in a PW where nothing you do actually matters, no I consider those pre-selected answers just to move you along. Now when you actually sit down and RP with others about things ''you'' did, you can use those choices as RP hooks, but that's about all they're good for (besides obvious quest rewards). For example, on an old server I used to play called Dalelands, the DM's were extremely active and it was extremely difficult to level past 10 without some huge event. When one person or group killed a boss, it stayed dead and that boss kill was forever attributed to those players. That is what I consider RP in a persistent world.

 

Shame that you didn't like NS4. I guess different strokes.. I enjoyed my time there (agreeing to disagree again, since we have different standards).

 

Also, it doesn't matter that you, specifically thought outside the box, to make a sorcerer as your first character. The fact still remains that NWN by default directs people into choosing recommend through every bit of character process. Now that won't make the ultimate character, but you will get a perfectly survive-able and in most cases, fun character that will be fine on most of the PW's I listed.

 

Furthermore, if a player gives up for dying, screw them. Their loss of $10 and no concern of mine. I'm not going to hand hold some one and kiss their boo boo's all better. If after shelling out money (while there are countless free carebare games out there), they decide that it's too hard to play, tough for them. NWN has a strong community to this day, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Got those two friends onto Alangara for the first time tonight with new characters.  Fighter/rogue, cleric, and sorcerer as originally planned.  Character creation took a while so only managed to finish the intro quests and get to level three tonight, more later.  Found out that three people being on the first quest made three dire rats spawn, so hopefully that trend continues (seen some PWs where you basically have to repeat an area three times if three people are on the quest).

 

Lot of spelling fixes and new low level stuff added which is nice to see in general for new players.  Both of them immediately started wondering why they got that "Intimate Emote" wand, though >.>

 

Yeah I meant HoTU my bad. Replace HoTU with SoU. And I've never been able to complete them all. I get whisked away to the end battle after two-three of those sub quests.

 

Technically it's supposed to only let you do three.  But if you set up teleport points in, say, Drearing's Deep near the merchant and then on the Isle of the Maker, you never have to return to the city (there are like 3ish specific trigger points near the city that will continue the plot).

 

The only time choices like that can really be considered is in a single player mod where you are the hero of your own story (or villian), but in a PW where nothing you do actually matters, no I consider those pre-selected answers just to move you along.

 

Fair enough.  I'd argue you COULD make those choices matter but I get your general point '>

 

Shame that you didn't like NS4. I guess different strokes.. I enjoyed my time there (agreeing to disagree again, since we have different standards).

 

I suppose.  It's entirely possible that as a different class/faction I might have enjoyed it.  The three dealbreakers for me, though, were:

 

1. Having to join an evil faction as a LG Aasimar.

2. Getting one shot by stealthed creatures at level 1

3. Having to enslave innocents as a LG character.

 

None of those problems exist on Alangara (or most PWs).

 

Now that won't make the ultimate character, but you will get a perfectly survive-able and in most cases, fun character that will be fine on most of the PW's I listed.

 

The funny thing is that's truer than you might realize.  The default recommended fighter actually isn't that bad compared to an optimized pure fighter.  This is in stark contrast to almost every other class where the recommend button creates something truly awful.

 

I'm still not sure I was so outside the box, though: I was coming straight from playing Lords of Magic and knew absolutely nothing about DnD.  I just thought sorcerer sounded cool and picked it.  The innocence of youth '>

 

Furthermore, if a player gives up for dying, screw them. Their loss of $10 and no concern of mine. I'm not going to hand hold some one and kiss their boo boo's all better. If after shelling out money (while there are countless free carebare games out there), they decide that it's too hard to play, tough for them. NWN has a strong community to this day, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

Just to make my perspectives clear:

 

The main game I play is WoW.  In WoW, the guild I lead is ranked in the top 0.5% of players.  We have a 20 man group attempting to beat bosses on the hardest difficulty in the game.  If we die *less* than 30 times on a boss (as a group, meaning thirty separate tries), we think it's a pretty easy boss.  Most bosses take 50+ attempts.  Some take 100+.  The hardest have taken 250+ attempts.

 

I've never seen anything remotely as difficult as the easiest bosses we do in NWN, by way of comparison.  But that's fine -- we're pretty "hardcore" in our mindset and it'd silly to think most people are like that.  But you might want to keep my situation in mind when I'd advocating that we NOT immediately throw new players to the wolves.  Difficulty is fine (if anything, I think Alangara is too easy to start -- but better than it be too easy than too hard initially) if you work your way up to it...but you don't want to drive people away right from the start.

 

Apparently we vehemently disagree on the subject, though.  You might find the first part of this article interesting (the whole thing is good, though).

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_icywind1980]

               

WoW is not a free game and is vastly different than NWN. I'm referring to the countless Anime styled mmo's and things like Runes of Magic or Aion (all of which I've tried)  as the carebear games. I've only tried WoW once on a 14 day pass, where I was constantly followed around by a higher level character and repeatedly killed and than the in game equivalent of sexually assaulted. I would not recommend that game to anyone. But as far as NWN is concerned, it's not that much of a challenge. Nothing in Alangara, or some of the others I mentioned is that difficult, nor is being thrown to the wolves at lower levels, and none of it is permadeath. I don't know how you ended up where you did in NS4, but I played a true neutral druid (as I often do for my first character on new servers) and found myself in a wood full of pleasant elves, picking off goblins until I got better gear. I stand by my original statement, though -----> there's the door carebears! xD Go play Eden Eternal!

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

I've only tried WoW once on a 14 day pass, where I was constantly followed around by a higher level character and repeatedly killed and than the in game equivalent of sexually assaulted. I would not recommend that game to anyone.

 

Which means you picked to play on a PvP server (where you can be freely killed by anyone on the opposite faction once you leave the zones meant for level 1 to 20).  Yeah, it's stupid.  All it takes is a few "gankers" to make lowbies miserable.  Some see it as a "rite of passage," I just think it's idiotic.  There's a reason I play on a PvE server (where I can still PvP in Battlegrounds, Arena, or outdoor zones designated for PvP -- or even just FLAG myself for PvP in the world if I want to invite others to attack me).

 

I honestly find this really, really ironic.  You are demonstrating the exact behavior I described -- you joined a game, didn't realize what you were getting into (in terms of PvP vs PvE servers), got repeatedly punished for it, disliked the game (due to your ignorance), and gave up on it.

 

If you had started NS4, another faction had taken over your faction's town, and they were repeatedly killing you over and over, would you have had the same reaction? '>

 

Nothing in Alangara, or some of the others I mentioned is that difficult, nor is being thrown to the wolves at lower levels, and none of it is permadeath.

 

One of the servers that immediately came to mind was World of Greyhawk.  The kobolds were already somewhat nasty even if you knew what you were doing -- and if you were a brand new player to NWN...oh boy.  Very good server overall (only real reason I left was the game ended once you fit 40 -- you then made a new character and started off.  Did that a few times and then moved on) but I wouldn't recommend it to someone brand new to the game.

 

I don't know how you ended up where you did in NS4, but I played a true neutral druid (as I often do for my first character on new servers) and found myself in a wood full of pleasant elves, picking off goblins until I got better gear.

 

I played a Lawful Good Sorcerer (and Aasimar to boot).  Which meant the only faction that would take me was the evil dragon faction.  It's literally as simple as that, which is pretty awful design.

 

So I got to kill rats and then would have been forced to enslave creatures if I wanted to continue.