Author Topic: Looking for an action server... Power gamer here, RP and Sex servers need not apply  (Read 1678 times)

Legacy_Lazarus Magni

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               LOL, if you say so...

In the words of the current US VP... "That is a bunch of.... malarky..."  To put it nicely...

Capisce?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Aelis Eine

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Lazarus Magni wrote...

What is your point?


My point is that you haven't made your stand clear whether you mean Av3 alone has more content than a commercial MMO or whether NWN1 as a whole has more content. I'm not from the US, in fact I probably live as far from the US as you can get (almost exactly halfway around the world). But I heard the media campaigns on both sides were relentless, so my condolences to you for having to endure that.

You seem to have clarified that you mean NWN1 as a whole has more content than most commercial MMOs, but single servers don't. We are in agreement on that so case closed.

In pnp dnd, when you envison an encounter with some cyclops let's say in a forest. And later on you envision them in a higher level area in a dungeon does it matter to you that you picture the same monster in your mind? Actually with CEP there are like 7-10 different cyclops... so again what is your point?


My point is that fatigue eventually sets in. In fact, fatigue of high fantasy in general is possibly setting in on the gaming scene as a whole, which possibly explains why GW2 uses Sylvari and Charr instead of Elves and Orcs, The Secret World goes Lovecraft-esque horror, RIFT does its techno-magic thing and WoW goes all Kung Fu Panda.

But specifically in NWN1's context, don't ask how many times I've killed rats in a basement, slimes in a sewer, goblins in a cave, or orcs in a war camp, floating furniture in a library, rogue pixies in a forest and so on and so forth. It's too many to count, and the story (if any) is usually the same, the setup is usually the same, usually the only thing different is the damage numbers coming out so it's very trite now. You cannot deny that this is a contributing factor in the decline of NWN's playerbase.

As for MM and WoW, I'll say that Blizzard has been very successful in building up a generation of very passionate, vocal fans of its game. I am personally not a fan of WoW - was never one for its art style and relatively slow pace of combat, but that's subjective taste. Probably has to do with me growing up on this side of the world since I tend to look more favorably towards Asian and indie Western releases.

That said, an ad hominem on him or any other forum poster is uncalled for. Lets keep this classy. I'd like to think we are talking about the limitations of NWN with regard to making a long-lived single-character experience here, not attacking any single server, forum poster or game.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Aelis Eine, 08 novembre 2012 - 12:57 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Lazarus Magni

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               MM and I have a bit of a history:
http://social.biowar.../index/13633358

Needless to say we don't like each other very much. But your right, and I am sorry for allowing that to detract from the OP's topic.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:23 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Lazarus Magni wrote...

LOL, if you say so...

In the words of the current US VP... "That is a bunch of.... malarky..."  To put it nicely...

Capisce?


Lazarus, I do not work for Blizzard.  I have never worked for Blizzard.

Nor do I work for any video game company.  Nor have I *ever* worked for any video game company.

If you're unable to believe that, then that's your problem.

Lazarus Magni wrote...

MM and I have a bit of a history:
http://social.biowar.../index/13633358

Needless
to say we don't like each other very much. But your right, and I am
sorry for allowing that to detract from the OP's topic.


I don't dislike you.  Mainly because I really don't care about you.  If you don't like me, fine, I really don't care.

If anything I find your antics humourous, especially when you act like you know about a game that you haven't played in-depth.

Aelis Eine wrote...

I am personally not a fan of WoW - was
never one for its art style and relatively slow pace of combat, but
that's subjective taste.


Out of curiosity, what do you mean by relatively slow pace of combat?  Long fights?  Not hitting buttons often enough?  How do you define a reasonable pace of combat (and have you ever played at max level challenging content such as arenas, rated battlegrounds, or heroic raids)?

I am honestly curious about this, because compared to WoW NWN seems positively glacial to me.  Which isn't an inherently bad thing, mind you, but seems odd you'd object to WoW being too slow.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Aelis Eine

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               WoW is faster than NWN for sure, but it's still slow compared to newer games. The genre seems to have shifted towards more twitch-action combat with features like dodging, aiming, lack of a GCD and more streamlined skill palettes.

I played a few battlegrounds on I think WotLK with a friend as a Frost DK over 2 days - casually mind you, but 2-4 hours of casual play should be enough for a reasonable assessment of whether to commit for the long run or not. The things I was used to - rapid firing of skills, being able to double tap a movement key to dodge/dash out of the way with invulnerability, being able to hold and release a cast time skill early at the price of lower damage ('course DK doesn't have cast time skills, but still) and a bunch of other things, were just not there, so that contributed to the slower pace of combat.

Back on topic, I've tried Av3 and it's at least above average. I definitely see more attention to detail than usual with the spell changes, notably quality-of-life improvements to weapon buffs so that they hit both weapons on a dual wielder. There's definitely a sense of progression - new mobs are introduced at just about the right timing and challenge level. Getting 15 levels in a single map seems a little extreme, but it's a big map and I figure it's to let new players experience the touted post-40 system more quickly.

The admin also seems savvy with NWN developments, and I see the use of systems like prebuffed spawns, NWNX-based stat modification and it looks like it uses the same epic spell framework as The Awakening, because the Silence spell has the exact same bug - when you cast it, the white ring appears and follows the target around, but the actual silence zone stays at the location it was cast. It has its own customizations of course.

Typical of an extreme high magic/high mods setup, the power creep is evident. Spell scaling is clearly geared towards the high end of the level spectrum. Which means spells that inherently don't scale well, like summons, simply get a static buff. This leads to what I call WSI syndrome, where a mid-level mage outperforms an epic-level melee character because their summon by itself has better stats than a geared epic character.

Buffs like basic elemental protections and damage reduction spells also tend to last many times the caster's actual HP pool. and it looks like the size of the mod has caused some maintenance issues, because mobs in old, low-level content are using spells modded for performance in high-level content.

For a post-40 oriented server, I consider these minor issues, so overall Av3 checks a lot of the basic checkboxes that need to be checked. It has potential to be good or great, but I can't pass that judgement until I see the post-40 content.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Aelis Eine, 09 novembre 2012 - 04:35 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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               Interesting.  If you're willing, drop me a PM to talk about that.

"more streamlined skill palettes"

Do you mean in terms of how many buttons to use or the equivalent of WoW's talent trees?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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Aelis Eine wrote...

But specifically in NWN1's context, don't ask how many times I've killed rats in a basement, slimes in a sewer, goblins in a cave, or orcs in a war camp, floating furniture in a library, rogue pixies in a forest and so on and so forth. It's too many to count, and the story (if any) is usually the same, the setup is usually the same, usually the only thing different is the damage numbers coming out so it's very trite now. You cannot deny that this is a contributing factor in the decline of NWN's playerbase.

very true...

this is because developers of nwn modules usually dont have skills to make their own appearances so they are limited with what NWN offers in default. Neither with CEP the variations isnt big especially when its "global" and every module has it (and considering big ammount of appearances are just different appearances of already existing monsters).
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Lazarus Magni

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               Aelis,
Glad to hear a fairly positive, and mostly constructive review of Av3, I think you might be the first. Regarding some of your critiques let me address those.

No doubt, in any mod of this size, from so many different builders, over so many years there are bound to be some imperfections. And as far as balance, I am very proud of the balance we have achieved, although I admit it’s not perfect (I don’t know if that is even possible no mater what the context [low/medium/high magic, post 40 or not]), although it is pretty decent on Av3.

What you said about summons isn’t quite true for Av3. Changes like our stone bones, gives the epic mummy 1% immune to all dmg types, which increases with post 40 to a cap of (I can’t remember off the top of my head, 30% maybe?) In conjunction with other buffs (many of which have also been modified, and have post 40) summons can continue to get better post 40. That being said though, they still die with a quickness in high lvl areas. They are nice in low and mid lvls (21-200), but are not a casters stand behind meat shield in high, and certainly don’t out perform a higher (or even equal) level melee PCs.

As far as low lvl mobs using higher lvl spells. This is generally balanced by 2 things. First caster levels. A NPC with 20 CL casting a lvl 9 spell does a lot less dmg than a NPC with 60 CL (most spells had CL caps removed.) CL on mobs has been scaled according to the level of the area for the most part. And secondly NPCs also have a form of “Post 40”. It’s actually CR based. What this means is an NPC with 60 CL and a CR of 100 does a lot less dmg than an NPC with 60 CL and 1000 CR. In this way they scale by level of the area.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 09 novembre 2012 - 07:37 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Aelis Eine

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Lazarus Magni wrote...

Aelis,
Glad to hear a fairly positive, and mostly constructive review of Av3, I think you might be the first. Regarding some of your critiques let me address those.

No doubt, in any mod of this size, from so many different builders, over so many years there are bound to be some imperfections. And as far as balance, I am very proud of the balance we have achieved, although I admit it’s not perfect (I don’t know if that is even possible no mater what the context [low/medium/high magic, post 40 or not]), although it is pretty decent on Av3.

What you said about summons isn’t quite true for Av3. Changes like our stone bones, gives the epic mummy 1% immune to all dmg types, which increases with post 40 to a cap of (I can’t remember off the top of my head, 30% maybe?) In conjunction with other buffs (many of which have also been modified, and have post 40) summons can continue to get better post 40. That being said though, they still die with a quickness in high lvl areas. They are nice in low and mid lvls (21-200), but are not a casters stand behind meat shield in high, and certainly don’t out perform a higher (or even equal) level melee PCs.

As far as low lvl mobs using higher lvl spells. This is generally balanced by 2 things. First caster levels. A NPC with 20 CL casting a lvl 9 spell does a lot less dmg than a NPC with 60 CL (most spells had CL caps removed.) CL on mobs has been scaled according to the level of the area for the most part. And secondly NPCs also have a form of “Post 40”. It’s actually CR based. What this means is an NPC with 60 CL and a CR of 100 does a lot less dmg than an NPC with 60 CL and 1000 CR. In this way they scale by level of the area.


I wasn't referring to damage as much as I was to the 2 issues I mentioned: summons and buffs. It appeared to me that as a starting character, it was common to run into casters with 100+ points' worth of some kind of damage reduction buff to punch through, either elemental or physical, which made them more resillient than their melee counterparts. With a rest rule and limited number of spell breaches at that level - or even none if playing a non-mage, this can be hard to overcome.

Given the slow rate of earning gold at low levels, it also seems impossible for a new player to get the kind of gear required to bypass that DR. I was hitting a mob in Arcane Sanctum with a +5 Kama for 1 damage. That was supposedly a CR10-14 area. Then it cast a Helmed Horror that hit for 100+ damage, and there were 2 of them.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Aelis Eine, 10 novembre 2012 - 12:16 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Lazarus Magni

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               Arcane sanctum, and the sewers are old areas that probably need to be updated, They are basically low lvl areas that only people with farmed loot passed on to new players can run. Luckily there are over a dozen other areas in that level range you can run. Also the recommended party lvls for areas, are not exact, and intended for parties.

I did however create a thread on our boards a while ago with tips to new players. The very last post of which tells players a surefire way to get on your feet in the world:
http://social.biowar...scussion/24813/
You can farm gold pretty easily (and spend it easily too) in lots of areas if you know where to look. That's why some areas in the Book of Aventia have $ sings next to them indicating they are good for getting gold.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 10 novembre 2012 - 06:30 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Dark star 1

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               After trying out a number of other high level action mods, well I have to say I am quite happy to have found Aventia 3 Merged. There are quite a few out there with level 60 caps, or level 80 caps, but nothing comes close to the unlimited nature of Aventia 3 Merged.

I also really respect the owner for not accepting donations for favoritism, and being open to community input, but not held hostage by it. He listens to what players have to say, but doesn’t pander to them. He does what he knows is right for the mod, and I respect that, and appreciate the ability to offer my input.

I look forward to achieving some of the high levels I have seen other players logging in with (400+ o_O).

Not trying to suck up Lazaurs, but just wanted to say thanks.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Dark star 1

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               Oh and I would add another server to this list. The Awakening, it's highly customized, high level PW action. Good stuff.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Luj1

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Lazarus Magni wrote...

BTW MM, have you heard the one about how many WOW game developers does it take to create one “raid”?

20.

How many people will pay for this?

10 million.

How many comparable nwn 1 “raids” are made in the same amount of time by the NWN 1 community?

20.

How many people pay for this?

0.


Good point '<img'>