Inflated Player-Counts

[Legacy_A_Julian]

               

Khuzadrepa wrote...

I have to respectfully disagree with your line of thinking here.

Griefers actively try to ruin the enjoyment of other players and DMs.  They don't give 'something to do' that's enjoyable, productive, or worthwhile.  How can an inflated player count be worse than that? It's not hurting my experience at all if I log into a server with no one else on.  I mean, if other people are on, then it can be a better experience, but it's not hurting me.

I don't see how it's anywhere close to being as harmful to the community as griefers are.

I think you're missing the point. Personally I think that griefing on the whole is worse than this, but I'm pretty sure the OP wasn't saying what you are suggesting. Logging on to a server with no players will not hurt you. It hurts the other servers, and the NWN community in general, because its dishonest tactics. Griefing also has this effect in my opinion, but there's probably an argument that it binds the community together blah blah, whatever.

I know the Social scene very well, and the owner, Mavrixio, regularly boasts about his tactics in Gamespy chat. Because of that, I see no problem at all with naming and shaming him/them here, in the same way that we name/shame trolls and griefers.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Khuzadrepa]

               

Quilver wrote...
That said, you're trying to directly compare the actual specifics of griefing with inflating player counts, when they're massively different things.

Quilver wrote...
We like to moan about griefers. Well, at least (most) griefers (sometimes) give us something to do. These weaselly servers are just bad for the whole NWN community.

To me, this implies a comparison that there could be something redeeming about griefing, making it better than inflating numbers.  I personally have never seen a positive experience with griefing, and have a hard time seeing how that could be possible.  If you've had one, well, exceptions are bound to happen, right?

I didn't miss the point.  I'm not saying I agree with inflated numbers, I also don't think it's a healthy tactic; I'm saying that this particular statement is something I (respectfully) don't agree with.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Khuzadrepa, 16 mars 2011 - 05:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Fellanor]

               Completely agree with Quilver. This sort of behaviour amongst server admins should be rooted out.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               If you don't like how a PW does things, why play there? being annoyed with inflated player count is just as silly as being upset that not all PWs use CEP. Both CEP and Inflated Player counts are added content. Cheating has nothing to do with it. The player count does not make the game any more easy than it is. It does not change how the combat plays out, or how much store sell items, or even give certain PCs items.
My morals are just fine thank you, This is a game, not life. Hosting a inflated NWN server is not the same as breaking a actual real life law. In fact the only real law with NWN is the ELUA, which states you can not profit from anything you make in NWN. Inflating the players loged into a PW does not remotely challenge that.

If you have this big a problem with the way that someone runs their own server, then perhaps you should turn off NWN and get some counseling. Whining about it, and still looking to see if they are continuing to do it seems to be too much for you to handle.

I am going to point out that the player numbers have absoulutly nothing to do with how good a server is, it also has nothing to do with "hurting" another server. There a hundreds of servers running right now, with no players at all. They are up and running daily, and yet remain empty, some have been up for years. they will most likely continue to remain up regardless of how many fake players are added to the counts of whatever other servers.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               

Bosgald wrote...

Er, who cares?

Ahhhh Bosgald.  I should have known you'd show up here.  This here is a far more troublesome player than someone who inflates server counts.  He's been known to actively recruit help from banned players to grief servers.

The player counts, I hardly worry about.  Quality over quantity.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

                Personally, I don't understand why anyone would take the time to make such a big deal out of this "issue". As another poster pointed out, who cares if they're inflating their numbers?

False advertising? That implies that someone is delivering less (or a different) product to a customer than the customer is paying for. There's no money changing hands here. No one is cutting into anyone else's profits.

Cheating? Cheating who? Out of what? Bragging rights?

So, bottom line is, if you want to complain about something someone else is doing, that's your right. But don't be surprised or indignant if a lot of people don't care or agree.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Quilver]

               

SHOVA wrote...

If you don't like how a PW does things, why play there? being annoyed with inflated player count is just as silly as being upset that not all PWs use CEP. Both CEP and Inflated Player counts are added content. Cheating has nothing to do with it. 

Incorrect. It's tricking the game, in the same way that using an override to 'hack' is tricking the game. Though, I suppose you just consider them to be 'localized added content'.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Quilver]

               Guys. This isn't rocket science.

Server X has 10 players logged on.

On Gamespy, it says Server X has 32 players logged on.

If you don't see the discrepancy, that's fine. But, to come here moaning about me moaning about something?

... I'll let you figure it out. I don't mind anyone giving their views. Some agree with my viewpoint, some disagree. But to come here and criticise me for 'making a big deal', while you are in fact 'making a big deal' about my post. Can you say... 'Irony'?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               No it isn't rocket science, but playing there is not required either. The only one who seam to have a problem with how they do things, is you. Since none of the admins, from that server have come here, to answer your "charges" or to respond with take a flying leap, its up to the current community to answer, or to ignore your post. So, we first say its not a big deal, and you continue to say that it is, callling it cheating even. Now, however I won't bother telling you that your making something out of nothing, I will only say if you don't like it, well BOO HOO. They obviously do not care enough to come here and respond to you, and best bet, they won't stop it either. Since no player from that server has come here to respond either, looks as if no change to the real player count of the server will happen either. Guess your out of luck, and all your moaning changed nothing, and the seed of whatever you wanted to plant, got crushed by the "we don't care" boot.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_A_Julian]

               Believe me, SHOVA, most people in the Social scene have a problem with how they do things. From where I'm standing, you're getting unnecessarily worked up about a perfectly legitimate rant.

I also think you're kinda missing the point, because it's mainly about servers and inter-server competition rather than random wandering players who happen to enter the mod. It's not like they are doing anything bad to their players. They're just cheating the system, by using a 'plug-in' to make it look like they are a highly populated server. If you require any proof that a high player count attracts player, go talk to the admins of Arelith, Amia or Styss.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Fellanor]

               SHOVA: Your post is oddly ironic.

I can't claim to have read every post in here, but you're complaining about, er, someone complaining?

Inflating player-counts isn't cool. Is it a criminal offence? No. Is it technically cheating the game? Yes. Is it a lame thing to do? Absolutely.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bosgald]

               

lordofworms wrote...

lol, if I could do it I would and I don't consider myself a 'bad' person...
but I agree, some (many) go by players, and if your a PW hurtin to just see ONE player , well yeah I would script in a way to have someone look logged in.
when I first started my PW (wow a year ago??) and launched it I watched dutifully for WEEEEEKs to not see a single person sign in...*sigh*
so I used one of my old accounts (I love NWN so of course I have like 6 copies) and logged in as some bloke...
an hour later someone logs in, and hour after that 2...
now that I have regulars I am happy that I am building not just for me but for 'someone' out there...
but sometimes things like this are just a means to an end...
or as you point out, maybe its just their way of looking 'busy' but I still have my faithfuls so honestly what does it matter that a server has 'ghosts' running about.
noone can make you 'love' a PW simply with high player counts.

This, btw.

Calvinthesneak: No idea who you are, but you have my confused with someone else. Also...

Quality...

I thought you were from Styss?

'>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               Your point is its your opinion that they are cheating. We got that.
The majority of the opinion by those posting replies to your post, is: we do not care. You have not got that point.
I am not worked up, mearly replying to your rant. Your under the impresion that a "plug-in" is a cheat, When it is just a plug-in. Anthing not included in the original game, or expasions, is a plug-in. Whether hak, override, or new script. A plug-in does not infere cheating, it mearly adds content to the game. In the case of your rant, the plug-in adds fake players. That is no more cheating then the PC nakedness content of the haks most of the social servers use.

I believe you are right about 1 thing, that being that most people who play social servers have a problem with how the (the admins of those servers) do things. having played on several of these PWs, the mods lack quality, working systems that create lag free PWs. they also seem to have a hard time finding compitent builders/scripters to set things right. However, they do have the right to run their servers as they want, to add whatever content, even fake players to their worlds.Just as you, and I have the right, to not log in to them.

As for interserver compitition, I believe your looking for something that is not there. Most servers, do not care what other servers are doing. It takes so much time and effort to keep a server running, that most people who choose to do that, only focus on the server that they are running. I take this a step further, A good server admin only cares about their own PWs, and their players. Because, there isn't time for the other.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Quilver]

               

SHOVA wrote...

No it isn't rocket science, but playing there is not required either. The only one who seam to have a problem with how they do things, is you. Since none of the admins, from that server have come here, to answer your "charges" or to respond with take a flying leap, its up to the current community to answer, or to ignore your post. So, we first say its not a big deal, and you continue to say that it is, callling it cheating even. Now, however I won't bother telling you that your making something out of nothing, I will only say if you don't like it, well BOO HOO. They obviously do not care enough to come here and respond to you, and best bet, they won't stop it either. Since no player from that server has come here to respond either, looks as if no change to the real player count of the server will happen either. Guess your out of luck, and all your moaning changed nothing, and the seed of whatever you wanted to plant, got crushed by the "we don't care" boot.

Difficult to understand this rambling post, but in short:

Not at all. Lots of people have a problem with this. Quite the opposite, in fact: You seem to be the only one who is passionately for it, whereas most people are against it.

Perhaps you think it is acceptable to trick people. I don't.

In any case, you seem, as others have pointed out, more obsessed with this matter than I am. Have fun with that.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Fellanor]

               

SHOVA wrote...

The majority of the opinion by those posting replies to your post, is: we do not care

Erm, you seem to care more than anyone, dude, judging by the length of your posts.

Also, bashing up the guy's thread is kinda lame. He brought forward something to consider. You disagree with him. Get over it. Absolutely no point in complaining about a thread's existence, within that thread.