Here's why I don't bother with most PWs...

[Legacy_Sulhee]

               Okay, admittedly I didn't check the names (only the level ranges) so Iﾃつ guess even though it was in the "RP"ﾃつ section maybe it wasn't so much "RP". ﾃつ But I'd still make the point thatﾃつ I feel this illustrates a problem that also extends to almost allﾃつ RP servers that I've seen in pastﾃつ yearsﾃつ (I'm possibly coming off a break from the game).


SuperFly:ﾃつ No offense intended at all, but it doesn't sound like we're in the same market for RP server designs. ﾃつ I ﾃつ don't disagreeﾃつ with most of what you've said but it's just not what I'm looking for. ﾃつ (Iﾃつ can't stand epic level stuff at all, to start!ﾃつ )


"ShaDoOoW": I'm sorry but making a stupid, rude comment (as you have done here before in the past) and then saying "no offense"ﾃつ doesn't work buddy. ﾃつ You have no idea what you're talking about.


ehye_khandee:ﾃつ I'll check your server out some time.ﾃつ  I'd prefer a server where my PC's adventuring and combat time is fully compatible with all other PCs' "adventure time" on the server, so I'm not sure about my prospects, but it can't hurt to try Iﾃつ guess.ﾃつ '>


Drakantus:ﾃつ Good point, MMOs do the level treadmill thing MUCH better than NWN does so it is a little 'curious' that so many in NWN look for it.


Jenna WSI: ﾃつ You're right - the names are hilarious!ﾃつ  But Iﾃつ thoughtﾃつ Iﾃつ was looking at an RPﾃつ server, honest!'>


Eradrain: I might find it hard to disagree more. ﾃつ It's definitely a major RP inhibiting issue! ﾃつ I could write an essay explaining why. ﾃつ This: "if you're (like me) someone who prefers playing powerful characters"ﾃつ  explains a lot to me about why you don't see a problem. ﾃつ Iﾃつ don't prefer that, but Iﾃつ don't prefer playing weak characters either given the choice.

You think Iﾃつ don't realize that a level 1 can interact with a level 20? ﾃつ  ﾃつ Rather than taking the happy path, think for a second about all the things they can't do. ﾃつ It's a very, very long list when you think about the things players spend the majority of their time doing on a server. ﾃつ Like Eagles pointed out, "roleplay" doesn't exclusively occur sitting in a safe non-pvp tavern or town area. ﾃつ On most servers you can't be a <5th level and still fully participate in the entire world environment and DMed events. ﾃつ Of course the problem goes beyond just a RP issue, true, but that just makes it a larger problem.

1. Meaningful, PvE (dungeons) where all players contribute evenly, and...
2. PvP.
Semantics aside that's at least "half" the game, even on a roleplay server.

You're also missing something that you're locked out of:ﾃつ xx% of the server's areas, depending on how many areas are designed for higher level characters. ﾃつ (Also in reverse, high level PCs don't have much use for low level areas.) ﾃつ Iﾃつ don't need to play a "powerful"ﾃつ character, but like most people I do prefer an on-par with their surroundings (PC and NPC) character.

I've heard what you say a million times, "a clever DM can compensate". ﾃつ True perhaps (accidents happen), but a DMﾃつ thatﾃつ doesn't even need to worry about such things is going to perform that much better than one that does. ﾃつ Same goes for players - personally I wouldn't want to endlessly create new characters just to join new players, perpetually exploring and being stuck to the same 20 low-level areas in a server because the PC will be killed if they go anywhere else. ﾃつ Yeah, you can do this to compensate for this level range problem, but Iﾃつ don't think it's the answer I'm looking for.

You got me on the screencap, I didn't check names soﾃつ it's a bad example. ﾃつ I took it at a weird time so I probably had slimmer pickings than usual... Iﾃつ was in the RPﾃつ section though... er, Iﾃつ think? ﾃつ 


I guess it's safe to say that there isn't any simple solution. ﾃつ Either you design for a very limited range of levels, or your DMs and players need to put out the extra effort to ensure that the level range isn't a deal breaker.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jenna WSI]

               One of the ways WSI tries to fix this issue is to make leveling pretty easy, for an rp server. So it doesn't half a year to get into epic levels, if you want to put the effort into it. Players can also ask for xp to be removed, if the like to stay lower level for rp reasons.



Also, that was totally the Social section, c'mon. >.<
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               There is alwaus EFU a RP server where PC are lucky to survive past level 6.   It is heavy RP with lots of players.  Of cource they now  hide the player list to advoid spoliers.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Sulhee wrote...

"ShaDoOoW": I'm sorry but making a stupid, rude comment (as you have done here before in the past) and then saying "no offense" doesn't work buddy.  You have no idea what you're talking about.

Someone, especially admin of that server which (maybe) put large effort to make the life of new players easier even if nobody is there could saw your comment "stupid and rude" too. I am server admin so I know what I am talking about.

Thats what I wanted to show you with my post. OK?
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par ShaDoOoW, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:09 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Eradrain]

               

I guess it's safe to say that there isn't any simple solution.  Either you design for a very limited range of levels, or your DMs and players need to put out the extra effort to ensure that the level range isn't a deal breaker.

Pretty much this.

And that is why the tenor of my post was so very   "The Glass is Half Full."

Because there's no simple solution, so one might as well try and see the bright side.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jenna WSI]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Sulhee wrote...

"ShaDoOoW": I'm sorry but making a stupid, rude comment (as you have done here before in the past) and then saying "no offense" doesn't work buddy.  You have no idea what you're talking about.

Someone, especially admin of that server which (maybe) put large effort to make the life of new players easier even if nobody is there could saw your comment "stupid and rude" too. I am server admin so I know what I am talking about.

Thats what I wanted to show you with my post. OK?

If he was rude, he would have named the server, which didn't happen because it wasn't a personal attack. Just because a builder put work into it doesn't mean it's flawless or should be treated as such. No world is perfect.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Lightfoot8 wrote...

There is alwaus EFU a RP server where PC are lucky to survive past level 6. It is heavy RP with lots of players. Of cource they now hide the player list to advoid spoliers.

Unfortunately they removed the party system also...so you can't join party with other people...you kind of have to "imagine" that you are in a party instead.

Removing the list is also daft. It is usually powergamers who wants to hide their build.

If someone would have choosen to metagame the information that was in that list that is his own choice.

For me...it just helps finding a buddy to play with....which after all...is what roleplaying is all about...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_FR Mulm]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Lightfoot8 wrote...

There is alwaus EFU a RP server where PC are lucky to survive past level 6. It is heavy RP with lots of players. Of cource they now hide the player list to advoid spoliers.

Unfortunately they removed the party system also...so you can't join party with other people...you kind of have to "imagine" that you are in a party instead.

Removing the list is also daft. It is usually powergamers who wants to hide their build.

If someone would have choosen to metagame the information that was in that list that is his own choice.

For me...it just helps finding a buddy to play with....which after all...is what roleplaying is all about...

Those who do not like removing the list that metagames the levels and classes are those who do not know how to do it.

Keeping the list leads to metagaming and on a true role playing server it cuts down on the headaches that DMs get from hearing about so and so is a powergamer and is getting too many levels too fast.

Every server I know that has removed it has found extra benefits as well.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Eradrain]

               

FR Mulm wrote...
 removing the list that metagames the levels and classes are those who do not know how to do it.

Keeping the list leads to metagaming and on a true role playing server
it cuts down on the headaches that DMs get from hearing about so and so
is a powergamer and is getting too many levels too fast.

That's a grossly sweeping statement.  In fact, I'm a little shocked at your audacity in lumping me/the rest of the world and all the servers I/the rest of the world have played on in that absolute declaration.

Any time I find a server that cuts out quality-of-life game features out of a misguided desire for immersion, I look elsewhere.

It's not because I want to metagame.  It's because I hate servers that cut out game features - If I want pure RP, I will use a pure text-based format, like chat or a forum.  If I play NWN, I want to be RPing in a video game.

Some people like the idea of absolute hardcore realist purist RP in NWN (though I can't imagine why, chat-text is such a better medium for that), but they're not everyone, and they're probably not even the majority.
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par Eradrain, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Butcher Dogblood]

               The only issue I see with the op's list is the names of the characters..  



Now, I won't make someone change their character name unless it's something offensive, but I really prefer people to take the time and think of a character name that "suits" the character in some way.  



I prefer to not see things like"NInja Master 4300" as a character name..

Also, I hate seeing normal players use the Forgotten Realms gods as character names.

I've razzed a few folks for doing this (just kidding with them, not anything major).  We had one guy using Bane..  my dm character of choice.  Someone else tried using Corellon Larethian I think it was.  There has been a Drizzt, a Bruenor, a Cadderly Bonaduce, someone tried using Elminster..



To me, in a RP server especially, that is in poor taste.



If you're playing an Orc, come up with something that sounds like an Orc's name would..  or if a dwarf..  and so on.



Ah well, that's just me.  It's not something that we "force" on our server, but I do tell people when I see them using a name that irks me.  I like to provide suggestions if the person is receptive.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Butcher Dogblood]

               

Eradrain wrote...

FR Mulm wrote...
 removing the list that metagames the levels and classes are those who do not know how to do it.

Keeping the list leads to metagaming and on a true role playing server
it cuts down on the headaches that DMs get from hearing about so and so
is a powergamer and is getting too many levels too fast.

That's a grossly sweeping statement.  In fact, I'm a little shocked at your audacity in lumping me/the rest of the world and all the servers I/the rest of the world have played on in that absolute declaration.

Any time I find a server that cuts out quality-of-life game features out of a misguided desire for immersion, I look elsewhere.

It's not because I want to metagame.  It's because I hate servers that cut out game features - If I want pure RP, I will use a pure text-based format, like chat or a forum.  If I play NWN, I want to be RPing in a video game.

Some people like the idea of absolute hardcore realist purist RP in NWN (though I can't imagine why, chat-text is such a better medium for that), but they're not everyone, and they're probably not even the majority.

Very much agreed.  I like NWN because of many of the features, feats, skills and so on.
I typically don't care for places that take away from what the game has to offer.  I prefer to see places that add features really, or just keep the game mechanics "as is."

Another feature I hate to see places get rid of is Respawn..  I'm not a perma-death person..
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_FR Mulm]

               

Eradrain wrote...
Any time I find a server that cuts out quality-of-life game features out of a misguided desire for immersion, I look elsewhere.

It's not because I want to metagame. It's because I hate servers that cut out game features - If I want pure RP, I will use a pure text-based format, like chat or a forum. If I play NWN, I want to be RPing in a video game.

Some people like the idea of absolute hardcore realist purist RP in NWN (though I can't imagine why, chat-text is such a better medium for that), but they're not everyone, and they're probably not even the majority.

First, Edited to practice DNFTT.

Second, People do not mean to metagame. Let me say that again, MOST PEOPLE DO NOT METAGAME ON PURPOSE. Sure some do cheat but most folks accidentally do it more than do it on purpose. Levels, class make up and several other things on the list make it like this. It is just as easy to send a tell in game to people or find players in a tavern and talk to them there. Let the role playing decide not the list.

Removing a list that should never have included class make up and levels is improving the game. It is like removing the On Examine feature that allows players to see what a monster CR is or what they are immune to. Are you also against that?

Third, Text base role playing is not NWN. If we want to get technical then Pen and Paper is the way to have true role playing but defined in this conversation is that many of us role playing enthusiast or elitist or whatever term you wish to coin for people who rp in NWN is how we like it. Removing the list has benefited the 5 servers I have seen do it and two of those servers are numbered in the 20s nightly on players.

I have also seen an Action server do it and it though the whole player base was against it in the end they all liked it allowing for some fun tactics.
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par FR Mulm, 14 septembre 2010 - 09:08 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_FR Mulm]

               

Butcher Dogblood wrote...

Very much agreed.  I like NWN because of many of the features, feats, skills and so on.
I typically don't care for places that take away from what the game has to offer.  I prefer to see places that add features really, or just keep the game mechanics "as is."

Another feature I hate to see places get rid of is Respawn..  I'm not a perma-death person..

There are many unbalances in NWN that have been shown again and again. Since NWNX added this feature it was and is one of the hottest topics on many a server and when you think how many people requested vs how many did not you will see that it is indeed something many folks like.

If 10 people play on a server and 5 request it that is a large number of folks. Same with just about any feature or NWNX would never have developed it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__six]

               I realize l33t types have limited imaginations, but even considering that, those are some hella uninspired names.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               I like "American Monster" cleric 20 druid 19 and the token level of monk.  American Monstaahhh...



I find that annual, or semi-annual, vault wipes tend to help with level balance issues...