Here's why I don't bother with most PWs...

[Legacy_Sulhee]

               

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not singling out any particular server (whichever one this was) or users. ﾃつ You can find a similar situation on pretty much any server you look at, it seems.


Now just look at the serverscape in the screenshot above, and now imagine yourself creating a 1st level PC just starting out.

Ack! ﾃつ Doesn't sound like a very fun prospect to me (more like boring), hardcore RP server or not. ﾃつ In fact it feels like workﾃつ as you struggle to get some PC high enough level to reasonably interact with and travel alongside any other character at all.ﾃつ ﾃつ Not only that, but the players who will be mostﾃつ discouraged by this are the ones least concerned with gaining levels quickly and more concerned with roleplaying quality, so (theoretically) this may skew your player base away from hardcore RP.

So anyway, I'm mainly posting this for a reason:ﾃつ to ask whether there are any servers left out there (crazy slim odds Iﾃつ know) that try to address this problem reasonably well, and if not, what types of solutions can anyone here reading think of to remove such a barrier to entry?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_FR Mulm]

               Many servers when you log in will have a long time player or two or three log out as a high level and will then log in WITH a different PC to meet you.



I know FRC does this. Tales of the Silver Marches. And Savage Frontier will as well. It is note worthy though that they all have DMs from the same server and I would say it is something that when or if I ever finish my own corner of Toril that I too will do.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               You may find this post of interest from the WSI server. 

It was posted by a new person to the server, and says that they where supprised when players on the server created new Charcters in order to be able to RP with them. 


http://jenshumate.co...opic.php?t=2841
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sulhee]

               Mulm - that does help, but still, it'd be preferable to have 4-5 such PCs to interact with (more of a DMed campaign style feel).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sulhee]

               I dunno, I guess my thing is that I'm just not very interested in the whole leveling/advancement thing beyond some small amount of growth or equipment gains here and there.  Actually now that I think about it, most of the DMed campaigns I've been on have had very little of either really.  Unfortunately the NWC campaign selection nowadays is getting kind of sparse!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Eradrain]

               It's certainly an issue, but it's not an RP issue, and I think it's a bit fallacious to make it out as one.

A huge level discrepancy between characters means you're locked out of the following:

1.  Meaningful,  PvE (dungeons) where all players contribute evenly, and...
2.  PvP.

You can RP with someone just fine if they're incomprehensibly higher level than you.  Maybe not the way you might want to RP with them, maybe if you're (like me) someone who prefers playing powerful characters then you're not going to get that fix.  But you can still RP with them.

And a half-clever DM can easily put together a campaign that has no combat at all and is still quite fun and rewards player cleverness, and not character level.  In an environment like that, a level 1 can easily outperform a level 25.

Worst case scenario, a level 25 could still go with you into a lowbie dungeon, it would just mean that you'd have a much easier time of it.

....Though, to be honest, how many servers still start players out at level 1?  Every one I've tried in the past few years has started you in the 2-5 range.

Though I think your picture is a bit misleading, since you're talking (If I understand you rightly) about RP servers, but that's clearly not an RP server's player screen - "Count Vampirika"?  "Thunders Pure Massacre"?  "Cyber Lord"?  Plus all those builds with 1 level in Shadowdancer.  Most RP servers ban those kinds of names and builds.
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par Eradrain, 13 septembre 2010 - 07:19 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               Haha...Sulhee is kind of right there.

However...many servers who see themselves as "really" hardcore roleplay servers actually have a lot lower maximum level. If say level 10 is the maximum level you can get this problem is pretty much eliminated altogether.

Escape from Underdark, City of Arabel, Narfell and Shores of Winter has this.

Personally I think theese servers have another problem. They are too much RP for me. It has gotten to a point where XP and progression doesn't matter at all which I think is wrong and is an extreme.

I would really like to be in the middle.

Our server Genesis Nordock tries to do that actually. One thing however. Our server used to actually have theese restrictions that you talk about. Because of the former admin team listening too much to the players theese systems that where actually already in place where removed.

Ok...one bad thing about actually putting systems like this in place is that if you aren't really a perfectionist when it comes to writing down all the changes and all the implications players will get rightfully frustrated.

Another thing which happend to us was that most of theese inhibiting systems where removed but the information was not removed. That can also frustrate players. Anyway...we have most of the unnecessary and faulty information removed by now but this just shows that one have to think twice before putting "rules" in place that differ from the standard behaviour of the game.

I know there are people around here that love to script. Sometimes they are not my friends though... Just because you CAN script something doesn't mean you have to.

Personally I am against changing how the game works for reasons that I already explained.

That I am also against powebuilding and just think that the prestigeclasses are dumb doesn't go hand in hand.

If I ever make a new server I would probably have max level at 30 and just removing all the prestigeclasses (this can be done somewhat painlessly). Also probably wouldn't have any subraces. At least not subraces that are overpowered which seems to be the reason most of theese systems where made (to allow players to make more powerful builds that is...which is at least not my intention when adding subraces to my server).
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par SuperFly_2000, 13 septembre 2010 - 08:49 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Eagles Talon]

               Interesting discussion.



In "The North" most, if not all, of our players do have multiple characters of different levels.  Not just staff either.  DM's post for events in a certain level range.  This can be from newbie characters into Epic level characters.



I agree, RP does not depend on level in many cases.  But my definition of RP does not mean sitting around talking.  I like to act out my character on the playing field, weather it be dungeons or wilderness, city or tavern.  Level can in many of these cases be a factor.  The RP comes by "playing your character" during regular adventuring.  DM's can certainly make a difference for a mismatched level party.  But smart players can do the same thing.  It's all in the attitude of the server and the players.  The one pictured above certainly does not seem to be RP or for that matter fantasy based at all.  Sounds like an arena or PvP server.



My 2 cents.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               Many servers have empty hours. I tell everyone who will listen, if you find a server that looks interesting to you, log in regardless of how many may be logged in already. MOST PEOPLE ARE FOLLOWERS, so, bold adventurer, GO LEAD! Most often, once one logs in, there is soon more. You can just never know how many eyeballs are resting on the same ZERO you are, so go play and quit agonizing over the player roster of the moment.



Our server allows PCs to start at any level from 1st to 4th, even 5th if they 'work a little'. We have scripted minor miracles here, if you have not seen it, you should at least log in and run the tutorial area (aka Noob U.) to see what this engine is capable of - all done with an eye for NO LAG, NO CRASH, NO RESET needed.



We do actively promote the server and her features. We get many new players each month (more than 50 new per month atm). Our PLAYERS do tend to re-log with PCs of appropriate level to others when overall numbers are low, so PARTY play is more enjoyable too.



In short, JUMP IN the RP is fine!



               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Thats your problem if you can't play without someone on the same level (who can be miles aways) and don't start playing new PW because of it. If all peoples had the same issue, server would be empty. But they are not fortunately. IMO, good thing you don't log in, at least Dungeon Masters don't have to bother with you.

(nothing personal, although it can sound like that)
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par ShaDoOoW, 13 septembre 2010 - 12:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Drakantus]

               I have noticed the same thing, although I come from the opposite side of the coin- while I enjoy the option to RP, I am something of a powergamer and I enjoy advancement and challenging content.  Yet on the "pw action" servers I have played on even the most popular servers with 16+ players online most of the time it's very hard to ever group with anyone because with the level cap being set at 40 and grouping restricted to a 3-4 level range there just isn't anyone to group with.



I don't get it, I'd think that the player who want the massive treadmill experience would be playing a game like world of warcraft or final fantasy, NWN modules  take the other niche- which is games with limited advancement and small level ranges, where you might not advance as much in the end but you can at least jump in and play right away with other players.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jenna WSI]

               

Lightfoot8 wrote...

You may find this post of interest from the WSI server. 

It was posted by a new person to the server, and says that they where supprised when players on the server created new Charcters in order to be able to RP with them. 


http://jenshumate.co...opic.php?t=2841

Yep! Always a good way to get interaction. Also you should check the level separation for grouping together. Sometimes it gives you enough breathing room to party with higher pcs and not be alone.

Also, is it bad that I laughed like crazy at the login names, and initially thought your complaint was the non-serious pc names?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Dourtimes]

               One of the things that puts me off PWs - and thus far I haven't actually played any - is the knowledge demanded of players. I've been trying to build the courage to have a bash at one of the DM led, story based servers, but looking at the sheer wealth of back story on some of the websites is highly intimidating for a total newbie such as myself. I'd be terribly worried that I'd say the wrong thing - something out of character. I don't really have any history with role-playing outside of the multiple choices raised in certain single player CRPGs, so this kind of dedication to knowledge and character seems, well, like I said, it's intimidating.



Oh, and I'm new here. Had NWN for ages, played a bit of the original and campaign didn't think much of it. A few months ago I reinstalled it as part of a massive binge on CRPGs and fell in love with the incredible, enduring community behind it, who have been responsible for so many hours of amazing free content. I don't think I've ever encountered a game that belongs more to the community surrounding it than the developers that made it, but in my opinion, NWN is that game.



So, er, hi!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Dreggie]

               

Dourtimes wrote...

One of the things that puts me off PWs - and thus far I haven't actually played any - is the knowledge demanded of players. I've been trying to build the courage to have a bash at one of the DM led, story based servers, but looking at the sheer wealth of back story on some of the websites is highly intimidating for a total newbie such as myself. I'd be terribly worried that I'd say the wrong thing - something out of character. I don't really have any history with role-playing outside of the multiple choices raised in certain single player CRPGs, so this kind of dedication to knowledge and character seems, well, like I said, it's intimidating.

While it can be intimidating, most of the servers with that have it up primarily as reference material as you need/want it, and as a source of information for those that live and breathe that stuff.   The vast majority around are quite accomodating to people who have no clue about the region or setting, and most are very good with people new to the roleplay practices of a NWN PW.   I would suggest just giving a few a try, just jump right in, if you don't like the response you get from it, then there's always others, (and any server that responds rudely and unhelpful to you probably isn't worth your time.)
               
               

               

                     Modifiﾃδｩ par Dreggie, 13 septembre 2010 - 09:47 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               The player list is an abomination.  Obviously, they added it so you can see if buddies are on, but it shouldn't reveal class make-up and levels as it does.