Barbarian Rage, who's right?

[Legacy_Kato -]

               

Hi,

 

In the process of improving Rage so that it is still useful on a high magic server, I noticed that the duration formula in code differs from the Wiki's description. I would be tempted to rather believe the code, considering that the CPP version was obviously revised and debugged, yet I had to verify with you guys. Any idea?

 

P.S.: Sorry if it has been asked before, looks like the search engine does not like me much...

 

 

Kato

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Wiki only describes it badly, but the outcome match. They probably didnt described it as 3 + con modifier after rage because player might have +12 con items in which case his con modifier after rage will be same while duration still counts the con modifier which would exceeded the cap.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Keep in mind that (no offense to Shadow) if you're on a high magic server and altering Rage substantially that you may want to just do a custom rage duration anyway.  For example, if you're making Rage very powerful then allowing a max level Barbarian to easily maintain at least 90 seconds per Rage and also rage six times a day may be a bit much.

 

On the flip side, if you want Rage to be more of a lower key and effectively "permanent" bonus...but severely restrict resting...then you may need to extend the duration of Rage.

 

In other words: Shadow was fixing (from the sound of it?) the default Rage but the default Rage might not be right for you!

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kato -]

               

Thank you both!

 

 

Kato

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Keep in mind that (no offense to Shadow) if you're on a high magic server and altering Rage substantially that you may want to just do a custom rage duration anyway.  For example, if you're making Rage very powerful then allowing a max level Barbarian to easily maintain at least 90 seconds per Rage and also rage six times a day may be a bit much.

 

On the flip side, if you want Rage to be more of a lower key and effectively "permanent" bonus...but severely restrict resting...then you may need to extend the duration of Rage.

 

In other words: Shadow was fixing (from the sound of it?) the default Rage but the default Rage might not be right for you!

what he said - problem is that on high magic server, barbarians even when you modify the rage to give "what the bonuses would gave ie +4dmg +4ab +120hp..." will still be weaker than other classes/builds...

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kato -]

               

what he said - problem is that on high magic server, barbarians even when you modify the rage to give "what the bonuses would gave ie +4dmg +4ab +120hp..." will still be weaker than other classes/builds...

 

True, I'll have to "somewhat" balance the magnitude in code but that was already expected, for Rage and several other class abilities since the PC level cap is extremely high on my server. A true challenge as I like them '>

 

 

Kato   

               
               

               
            

[Legacy__Guile]

               It's really hard to balance things on high magic servers, the hardest part is making sure you don't let weapon damage get away from  you, because once players have powerful melee or ranged weapons that do significant damage, it makes it rather difficult to make higher level challenging monsters, boosting rage may help balance the class vs other classes, but at what expense to balance?


You would have to give Barbarians a significant advantage when raged (like 1 extra attack and the ability to ignore dmg, e.g. dmg immunity, because of the AC Penalty and Armor Restrictions of the class) to even make the class desirable to play imho....


I find it a tricky thing when you start adding power to the game, once you go beyond a certain point there's no going back without a server wipe, which often leads to a server going dead (no players), and though this may not be related, it's something to consider for everyone I suppose....


Bonus damage is great, increased AB too, but is it enough?  (It's really tough to balance classes.)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

I don't think it is difficult to balance a "high magic" (aka high powered) world. I do think it takes a LOT of trial and error and work though. And a perserverance to stick to your guns for your vision of what you think is right for the world, and equally as important if not more so a player base that is understanding, and appreciative of it (even if they don't always agree), or better yet a player base (including the "owners") that can work together to achieve it collectively despite differences of opinion. And in all those regards then yes... I changed my mind, I guess it is tough. LOL

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               

the classes are quite well balanced in the complete absence of perma-ability increasing items.  things like barb-rage or druid aura of vitality(which should be the best buff in the game) suddenly have alot of value.  few builders are disciplined enough to make this happen, however... or they go through the massive effort of re-scripting a bunch of things.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

the classes are quite well balanced in the complete absence of perma-ability increasing items.

 

Did you seriously just say that in a world without ability boosting items (and possibly other properties on items) that something like a cleric or mage is balanced against a fighter?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               

perma, MM, like the fire giant belt... not bull's strength or empowered bulls.  it should be difficult for a pure fighter to reach the +12 cap.

 

and I'm not talking pvp... which is impossible to balance in this game.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

perma, MM, like the fire giant belt... not bull's strength or empowered bulls.  it should be difficult for a pure fighter to reach the +12 cap.

 

and I'm not talking pvp... which is impossible to balance in this game.

 

It feels like you're playing in a different universe where somehow pure fighters aren't considered basically the weakest class or one of the weakest classes in PvE (and PvP, come to think of it).

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kato -]

               

perma, MM, like the fire giant belt... not bull's strength or empowered bulls.  it should be difficult for a pure fighter to reach the +12 cap.

 

and I'm not talking pvp... which is impossible to balance in this game.

 

Actually I'd rather go the other way in the balancing process. For instance, a level 20 fighter has a BAB of 20 but how can he/she reach or even get close to the AB cap that a fully buffed cleric(divine favor/power) or COT(divine wrath) will easily reach? Items or multiclassing. Strong items can help a lot to balance classes which cannot buff themselves, like fighters and several other martial classes. A fighter without equipment is a dead fighter.

 

From a RPG standpoint, classes are fine, but in PvP the disparities are a bit scary, to the point where players will always pick the same few classes if no balance at all exists. Without reaching perfect balance, it is still possible to "attenuate" such disparities, as I have seen on a few PvP servers(maybe naming them would be seen as spamming?) in the past, yet it's indeed a difficult and lengthy process. 

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               

divine favor is a rounds/level spell... not to mention a cleric's discipline skill will be too terrible for much front line fighting.  pallys and cot are quite strong in this game, though.  but i'm done arguing this.  the mechanics are basic enough to understand i think.