Can anything be done a the uselessness of Dirty Fighting feat?

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               They touched on all the ones I was going to point out...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               But anyway, even if the feat itself is of little use, as long as it's a prerequisite to something useful, it's not pointless and might be worth investing in it.

Devastating critical, for example, requires Great Cleave, even if GC itself is of little value at epic levels, as MagicalMaster pointed out. This automatically makes both Cleave and Great Cleave feats options to consider when you're planning a build for epic levels.

Dirty Fighting, on the other hand, is utterly pointless in this sense.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Grani, 31 janvier 2014 - 01:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

MagicalMaster wrote...

Combat Casting (unless you use it for Improved Combat Casting), Cleave/Great Cleave, Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Circle Kick (broken as hell in general), Extra Music, and Lingering Song (due to Lasting Inspiration which isn't a requirement anyway).

In terms of pre-epic feats that can be good early on but are terrible later.

This is weird. Like a half of your list is at least mid usefull, either for specific builds or for half the character life.

I wont argue about that its your opinion and my differ but being a DM/WB on a high magic epic loot action server I can tell you guys that Circle Kick is my favorite feat for monsters. It completely breaks the usual tactics of tanking a monster with stupid PM/rogue character. Fights are much more interesting. For players this is quite weird feat even when it wouldnt be broken. I made in past a modification that allows to turn it off and on when player wants but since monsters arent downgrade with their health and the fact that twenties are bit..hes this is hardly useable anywhere.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 31 janvier 2014 - 01:46 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Grani]

               I don't see Circle Kick as useless, but annoying - the fact that you can't turn it off does get on my nerves. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               then check this http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=5780
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               Thanks, I'll give it a try. '>
By the way, does your 1.70 patch fix anything with the Circle Kick?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Grani wrote...

Thanks, I'll give it a try. '>
By the way, does your 1.70 patch fix anything with the Circle Kick?

no but now when you brought it I think I could do something about it via nwnx, got finally whole weekend for nwn so maybe I will be able to do something about it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

This is weird. Like a half of your list is at least mid usefull, either for specific builds or for half the character life.

Some of the feats certainly ARE useful earlier on -- but the question was what feats wound up being useless at high level (presumably 30+ or something).

ShaDoOoW wrote...

It completely breaks the usual tactics of tanking a monster with stupid PM/rogue character. Fights are much more interesting. For players this is quite weird feat even when it wouldnt be broken.

On the flip side, it means a melee rogue or 2H barbarian/weapon master/paladin/fighter/etc can get switched to and attacked -- the problem is the stupid PM/rogue character which has ungodly defense.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

MagicalMaster wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...

This is weird. Like a half of your list is at least mid usefull, either for specific builds or for half the character life.

Some of the feats certainly ARE useful earlier on -- but the question was what feats wound up being useless at high level (presumably 30+ or something).

MM, this sounds like you misunderstand the question in the first post, unless I missed something. The OP stated that Dirty Fighting is useless except at starting levels, not that it was useless in epic levels.

"Starting Levels" is a fuzzy category, but equating all levels up to 29 as starting levels is an unusually wide range for this. Often, levels 1-5 are called starting levels.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               

henesua wrote...

MagicalMaster wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...

This is weird. Like a half of your list is at least mid usefull, either for specific builds or for half the character life.

Some of the feats certainly ARE useful earlier on -- but the question was what feats wound up being useless at high level (presumably 30+ or something).

MM, this sounds like you misunderstand the question in the first post, unless I missed something. The OP stated that Dirty Fighting is useless except at starting levels, not that it was useless in epic levels.

"Starting Levels" is a fuzzy category, but equating all levels up to 29 as starting levels is an unusually wide range for this. Often, levels 1-5 are called starting levels.

Actually, I just wanted to emphasize that this feat is useless not only on very high levels, but also on mid levels. That's why I used the phrase "starting levels".
But what I'd love best would be a scenario in which every feat is an option to consider when planning to develop a character all the way up to level 40.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Grani, 01 février 2014 - 01:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

henesua wrote...

MM, this sounds like you misunderstand the question in the first post, unless I missed something. The OP stated that Dirty Fighting is useless except at starting levels, not that it was useless in epic levels.

I was responding to the question directed at Pstemarie here.

Nothing to do with the first post.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MagicalMaster, 01 février 2014 - 02:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Sumthing]

               Just as a general question, does anyone know how much can you add to the games feats, skills and classes?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               And I have another question. I was thinking about the solution Squatting Monk suggested and had this thought...
Are PC behavior events hardcoded? I imagine this is the most probable answer, but it's worth asking nevertheless.
Because if they weren't hardcoded and, for example, shared something like OnPhysicalAttacked event with the default script of the creatures, then modifying it would also work for PCs, too.

I guess that's more of a wishful thinking, though...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Grani wrote...

And I have another question. I was thinking about the solution Squatting Monk suggested and had this thought...
Are PC behavior events hardcoded? I imagine this is the most probable answer, but it's worth asking nevertheless.
Because if they weren't hardcoded and, for example, shared something like OnPhysicalAttacked event with the default script of the creatures, then modifying it would also work for PCs, too.

I guess that's more of a wishful thinking, though...

You can fake OnDamaged via OnHit on PC armor and the GetActionMode should work there, but all you can do is to apply the damage as a effect which as you might know has another issues like not piercing damage reduction. (Possible to workaround - Ive posted a code snippet somewhere there few days ago, but bad solution nevertheless)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               Interesting. But what if the improvement to Dirty Fighting was not extra damage, but, for example, a chance to inflict blindness upon the target? Issues concerning damage reduction would not be a problem, then, right?
After all increasing damage is not the only way a feat can be made more useful.