A Question About Dice

[Legacy_modtyrant]

               Hello!

Is there any way to stop the game from using the D20? That would be really great.

Thanks!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_simomate2]

               In what situation? What do you mean? Use a different dice? The roll of a die is what makes up the core mechanics of dungeons and dragons and neverwinter nights... so what do you mean, stop the gaming from using the D20?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_modtyrant]

               I thought that would be a bit explanatory sense i didn't say anything about the other dice. Essentially disable the D20 rolling for Skills, Saving Throws, Attack & AC etc. It's too luck based, in the sense that i could die and then reload the game and then win just because the roll was higher for me.

Plus it's counter intuitive for my mod. I want my mod to use D&D settings, abilities etc but have it play like Guild Wars or some thing similar.

Of course using D&D stuff sounds stupid without the D20 but i plan on changing and adding things to the existing abilities so they can work without the D20. I also plan on making the game level-less and you can build your whole character from the character menu.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               using nwnx, it should be easy to do, though it will be hard to distinguish the rolls, so rather disable all rolls entirely

but question is what you want instead, autosuccess? I cannot imagine what that will be good for.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_the.gray.fox]

               @ modtyrant:

D20 is what NWN is built around. To suppress that, means to brutalize the whole game.

While NWN is a moddable platform (not even that much, truth be told), the D20 part of it is totally not. Let alone suppressing it.

Even if NWNX lets you mod whatever you please (provided that you do your homework, NWNX is a mere passepartout), it might be a better choice to port your idea on another platform entirely: a game the core of is not the D20 system, for starters, and that is more moddable than NWN, to be sure.

If you decide to stick with NWN to implement your idea, you will find yourself forced to resort to NWNX way more than you anticipated.

My .02 € -- That said, suit yourself.


-fox
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_modtyrant]

               No, i do not want auto-success, that would be horrible. Rather the characters will have a generally high avoidance to all kinds of attacks. Fighters and Spell casters would essentially buff and de-buff each other constantly until they run out of these "buffs". This is assuming if the below is possible.

For an example if a fighter used "the new parry" he would gain a huge bonus on AC and can counter attack if that bonus is 10 higher than the enemies attack. So in a sense this character would have auto-success until someone changes their tactics. To counter the modified parry, a character could use a new "dirty fighting" feat that will disable an enemies current combat mode. It seems like it would be easy to implement a design that replaces the D20 for temporary buffs on the same mechanics (just like the buffs with potions and spells).

My mod would change and add a lot of things but the abilities would still have their core functions. The combat would usually start out with everyone missing and blocking attacks and except spells. You would need to be in a mode that increases reflexes for example to dodge a fire ball.

Basically fighter like characters are given modified combat modes, feats and new combat modes and feats (if that's possible). Spell casters would be generally the same but all of their de-buffs and buffs would have to be changed.  There would also be cool downs on most if not all abilities and spells.

I have not fully worked out my balance notes but all of this is going to be balanced out fairly and equally (as close as possible). I am pretty sure that covers most of my mod but not all of it. The dice are just really annoying and take away a lot of the strategy.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               In all honesty NWN is the wrong engine for your concept unless you are willing to compromise on this. The D20 is a fundamental aspect of the rules and most of what you seek to change is hardcoded.

While it might be possible using NWNX to achieve what you wish, I question whether you have gained anything in spending your time to do so.

Perhaps there are other ways to achieve your ends without going up against a fundamental piece of the engine.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Failed.Bard]

                 You'll likely end up having to remove the standard combat AIs and write your own pseudo-combat engine, but it would work.  Here's a clip of a final fantasy style combat engine that someone had written for NWN, if you want an idea what else can be done. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_modtyrant]

               @Henesua

Well i all ready have an idea of how to make the mod work.

For example if +1 attack was implemented as +25 increments for every +1, then the D20 will never be a factor in the combat. I plan on doing it this way but i do not know how to edit the modifiers of the attributes or how to modify the attributes.

Here are some examples:

Enemy has 550 AC and you have 525 Attack, 1-20 would never equal or exceed the 550 AC because all +1 increments are changed higher than the D20. I just need to improve my scripting to make new feats, skills and combat modes.

EDIT:

The only things i need to do are modifiy exsisting things all ready in the game, such as buffs, de-buffs and damages.

Full Plate for exmaple might have 200 AC because 25x8 (+1 replaced with +25 increments)

A +2 Long Sword would have +50 Hit because 25x2
               
               

               

                     Modifié par modtyrant, 05 avril 2013 - 10:00 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

modtyrant wrote...

@Henesua

Well i all ready have an idea of how to make the mod work.

For example if +1 attack was implemented as +25 increments for every +1, then the D20 will never be a factor in the combat. I plan on doing it this way but i do not know how to edit the modifiers of the attributes or how to modify the attributes.

Here are some examples:

Enemy has 550 AC and you have 525 Attack, 1-20 would never equal or exceed the 550 AC because all +1 increments are changed higher than the D20. I just need to improve my scripting to make new feats, skills and combat modes.

EDIT:

The only things i need to do are modifiy exsisting things all ready in the game, such as buffs, de-buffs and damages.

Full Plate for exmaple might have 200 AC because 25x8 (+1 replaced with +25 increments)

A +2 Long Sword would have +50 Hit because 25x2

Problem is that the game isn't set up to simply multiply the enhancement by 25.  There is a +20 cap that is hard-coded which prevents this kind of adjustment.

EDIT: The game can be used to accomplish negligible low enhancement damage.  But this is done through damage reduction. 
A level 40 creature, for instance, could be granted damage reduction in the following amounts:
40/+1
35/+2
30/+3
25/+4
20/+5
15/+6
10/+7
5/+8

In this example the higher the enhancement the more likely you would deal damage.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WhiZard, 06 avril 2013 - 01:00 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_modtyrant]

               Is it possible to make a script that can detect D20 roles and then copy the outcome and then subtract the outcome?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_painofdungeoneternal]

               remove combat entirely, and make them fight via scripted methods ( spells and items that cast spells )

Or use some common sense and use a game development product and not mod an actual game ( torque, unity, etc ) but it would not be as easy as NWN.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 06 avril 2013 - 03:32 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

modtyrant wrote...

Is it possible to make a script that can detect D20 roles and then copy the outcome and then subtract the outcome?

Again, NWNX allows to modify all dice rolls. You can access dice size and outcome and replace it by different number. But, I would not advise to change dice size at all. First it may have unexpected results, second many things in game is capped with quite a low value. Attack bonus for example is capped around 128 and anything beyond shows up as negative number (although it works normally). Skills are the same, and I have no idea how to alter these caps. See everything you want to do requires heavy workarounds (using spells instead of attacks) or engine edits. You should start with NWNX where you'll see what can be altered and whats not.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Highv Priest]

               Honestly I have to go with these guys lol. Even someone like me who routinely tries to stretch the limits of my games by any means necessary knows when you're shooting for the stars. Really you could do just about ANYTHING ELSE then actually removing the dice rolls nwn is based off of. As shown in the video above you could make combat cutscene based(essentially Final Fantasy's system) or you could essentially use a wrapper to make combat work the way you want it to. NWNX has a wonderful .DLL called nwnx events you could use for this purpose quite well. In the OnAttack event cancel normal attack patterns, have the character perform one of the swing animations(by using playanimation) or multiple as may be the case and have all the calculations sent to the individuals to effectively simulate the process of combat without dice rolls. The only dice roll you can't get around with this system would be the initiative roll and if I were you I'd take a page from the Beatles and Let It Be.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_modtyrant]

               Uuuuuuuuuuuugh! I wanna cry!!!

How "easy" is it to get NWNX complete mods into multiplayer use for the host and the clients. If i am gonna attempt to use NWNX it needs to be multiplayer compatible.

EDIT:

Thanks guys, really appreciate all the feed back. Normally my threads get burried.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par modtyrant, 06 avril 2013 - 08:35 .