Damages respecting % Immune, and physical damage caps.

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               I am wondering if anyone has any ideas on these.
 
1)      Elemental/Energy damage applied to the character (like say from divine might) ignores % immune on targets (and resists I think.) Is there anyway to fix this?
2)      Physical damage seems to be capped at 100 + str mod on physical attacks (not spells). Even though using CEP (I believe) you can give up to 40d20 slashing dmg on a sword for example, no matter what it will only do a max of 100 (+str mod) dmg. Is there any way to fix this?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 07 avril 2012 - 08:38 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

I am wondering if anyone has any ideas on these.
 
1)      Elemental/Energy damage applied to the character (like say from divine might) ignores % immune on targets (and resists I think.) Is there anyway to fix this?
2)      Physical damage seems to be capped at 100 + str mod on physical attacks (not spells). Even though using CEP (I believe) you can give up to 40d20 slashing dmg on a sword for example, no matter what it will only do a max of 100 (+str mod) dmg. Is there any way to fix this?

1) You can get the damage added as a damage bonus on the weapon used; there will not be stacking naturally so you may have to get the item property if using both divine might and divine wrath (especially if bless weapon is already there).

2)  The cap of 100 only applies to the sum of the highest weapon damage bonus (in piercing, slashing, bludgeoning) + the damage increase effects.  The 100 cap is not multiplied in the case of criticals.  If you want a weapon to deal more, simply change its base damage.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               Hi WhiZard,
Thanks for the response.

For #1 we have been brainstorming a number of workarounds too, but I guess I thought I would ask here if, instead of a workaround, if it might be possible to actually just fix this?

And for #2 I am not sure if I understand what you mean about changing the base dmg of weapons. You mean via a 2da edit? And how would this affect the 100 cap?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...
And for #2 I am not sure if I understand what you mean about changing the base dmg of weapons. You mean via a 2da edit? And how would this affect the 100 cap?

Yes a 2da edit would be required.   Base damage, power attack, etc. do not apply to the 100 cap.  If you look at the combat debugging you will see the only term that gets capped at 100 is the "effect damage bonus" term which only includes damage bonuses from weapon and damage increase effects.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               So would that be the baseitems.2da die to roll category? Or number of dice? Would this work if it's only a server side edit? I am guessing yes, since we already have other edits to this 2da which are only server side.  And what's the math here? Would increasing a d10 weapon to d100 (if that's even a valid die roll in nwn1), make it cap at 1000 dmg then? Or would it just then be 200? I am guessing the latter, which doesn't help us much, not to mention they would be quite OP for lowbies.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 04 avril 2012 - 05:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

So would that be the baseitems.2da die to roll category? Or number of dice? Would this work if it's only a server side edit? I am guessing yes, since we already have other edits to this 2da which are only server side.  And what's the math here? Would increasing a d10 weapon to d100 (if that's even a valid die roll in nwn1), make it cap at 1000 dmg then? Or would it just then be 200? I am guessing the latter, which doesn't help us much, not to mention they would be quite OP for lowbies.

NumDice is the number of dice rolled, DieToRoll is the number of sides on a die.  Thus if you wanted base damage of 40d20 you would set NumDice to 40 and DieToRoll to 20.  I have not tested to see how high base damage can go before it reaches its limit, but BioWare does have creature weapons that can be set to 10d20 base damage.  Again, the 100 limit does not apply to base weapon damage, it only applies to (physical) damage bonuses from item properties or damage increase effects.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               Hmm this is interesting, and actually explains why some creatures (in addition to PCs) don't do as much dmg as they should.

So theorecitally if base dmg was changed to 40d20, the physical dmg cap would then be 800 (plus str mod, ect...). Unfortunately though  this doesn't really solve our problem. It would make low lvl characters get way too much dmg, and would not solve the core issue for higher lvls.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...
So theorecitally if base dmg was changed to 40d20, the physical dmg cap would then be 800 (plus str mod, ect...). Unfortunately though  this doesn't really solve our problem. It would make low lvl characters get way too much dmg, and would not solve the core issue for higher lvls.

I don't think you are quite grasping what I am saying, and it may be that I am not phrasing things well or because your documentation of the 40d20 longsword's damage is slightly off.

If you go into combat debugging mode using a standard longsword with a 40d20 slashing damage bonus you should see a read out like this:

Damage Roll: 6 + 12(Strength Bonus) + 100(Effect Damage Bonus)

The damage roll is the base weapon damage (as you see in the 2da) for a longsword it is set at 1d8.  The strength bonus is straightforward.  The third argument (Effect Damage Bonus) is the only place where the 100 cap applies.  The cap doesn't increase with base weapon damage, nor even consider base weapon damage.  It will always be 100 and you will never get the CEP damage bonus property of 40d20 to work correctly with physical damage.  This cap is likely implemented within the core damage calculations and thus might always be out of reach even for the NWNX team.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WhiZard, 04 avril 2012 - 07:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               Yep, I understand now, thanks for the clarification WhiZard. So setting it to 40d20 in the 2da would just change it to:
40d20 + Str bonus + still up to 100 max physical dmg (effect dmg bonus) + any elemental dmg on the weapon and/or toon.

Which as I said isn't a solution for us. Hence the post inquiring about the possibility of fixing these 2 bugs. I kinda figured it was not possible, but couldn't hurt to ask.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Xardex]

               *snip*

1: Divine might penetrates immunities and resistances because it is applied as a supernatural EffectDamageIncrease. This is intended behaviour, but if you want to get rid of it simply find Divine Might's script and make the damage increase non supernatural. (Note that it can be dispelled then)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Xardex, 05 avril 2012 - 03:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

Xardex wrote...

*snip*

1: Divine might penetrates immunities and resistances because it is applied as a supernatural EffectDamageIncrease. This is intended behaviour, but if you want to get rid of it simply find Divine Might's script and make the damage increase non supernatural. (Note that it can be dispelled then)

Nope, not at all.  All non-physical damage increases (whether magical, extraordinary, or supernatural) are filtered separately from the rest of the non-physical damage.  They are effectively clumped together (with a 1000 cap which is multiplied by crits) and ignore resistance and immunity.

Putting the damage on the weapon will cause immunity and resistance to trigger.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

WhiZard wrote...

Putting the damage on the weapon will cause immunity and resistance to trigger.

Which is what we would like. However, I am under the impression that this would negate already existing dmg on the weapon if it is of the same type correct?

Also would it not be transferable between players?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

WhiZard wrote...

Putting the damage on the weapon will cause immunity and resistance to trigger.

Which is what we would like. However, I am under the impression that this would negate already existing dmg on the weapon if it is of the same type correct?

Also would it not be transferable between players?

yes, another *workaround* would be to make this in OnHitCastSpell which however doesnt stack with already existing damage of same type (so damage resistance works twice) and also doesnt trigger at all in case of none physical damage done

Its definitely possible to change this behavior, which is really strange, via NWNX plugin but none of those publically released can do that. Your best chance is to find nwnx developer interested in your server to help you.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 05 avril 2012 - 07:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               I am under the impression this solution also would not be multiplied on crits unfortunately.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 05 avril 2012 - 07:50 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Lazarus Magni wrote...

I am under the impression this solution also would not be multiplied on crits unfortunately.

could be with some effort, nwnx allows to catch oncritical event so you would have to pass out information into onspellcastat script that it should multiply the damage by X