To my knowledge there are no PW building guides right?

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               I know about a couple of module building guides/manuals...but all of them concentrate at least 95% towards building SP (and at most MP) modules without almost any mention of PW's...aside "PW's are the hardest modules you can build"...doh....

I know there are some "starter" modules but they often contain too much...even though they are a good source of inspiration on what script systems to use and how to solve certain things...

Anything else for us PW builders?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 29 septembre 2011 - 12:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               There are really a LOT of problems, most of even specific to PW building although you can usually borrow parts from scripts intended for SP modules.

A document describing how to solve most of the problems and even providing simple scripts would be very useful.

Now the most common problem in a PW would ofcourse be to keep a lot of things "persistent". Basically means that if a door is not supposed to be permanently destroyed and you don't respawn it....it shouldn't be made able to bash in the first place (just and example...I know how to spawn doors....I think....).

I know the Wiki is the place that has come the furthest with this...but it is a mix of SP and MP and also some scripts are not current....

Other amongst numerous things are:

- Resting restrictions (yeah i know there is CS rest....but I need simpler)

- XP advancement, grouping XP and so on

- Death and dying. Making minor changes. (I know there is Axes D&D script system...but again...too advanced. the wiki has a good explanation here....but it lacks some things...and is it current?).

- Loot and the re-spawning there of (in chests primarily...loot on creatures from encounters re-spawn easier but still has to be determined somehow - the default scripts for this suck basically).

- Sitting. (Yeah..I know its rather simple...but still there are more ways than one to do it...like invisible object for example)

- Auto-closing doors after a set time.

- Merchants. How to think.

- General design. How to think.

- Balance.

- class restrictions.

- Spell restrictions. At least the most common and really needed ones....like not making Time Stop stop the whole server....

- Quests...saving persistent data....some of the easiest non-NWNX database ways...(yes...I am pretty sure you don't have to use NWNX for that theese days...)

There are probably many others. The wiki is the best source for now. The old forum WAS the best source before it dissapeared...but yet again...very spread out....and varying in level of complexity.

I know this is a shot in the dark...but if anyone knows of more sources of such information please announce it.

It is a shame that most PW's are pretty much closed doors development but somehow I can understand it and this is also a phenomenon that nurtures the lack of information about theese things.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 29 septembre 2011 - 12:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               The wiki? Which wiki? How about a link please (there are too many wikis to guess at)?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_FunkySwerve]

               Not very mysterious.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_DM_Vecna]

               Building a PW is maybe the most complex thing you can do in NWN. Many here work on them for years at a time. There were some resources on the old forum but I am not sure if they are in the omnibus. Honestly I would suggest choosing one of the prefabs as a base, take it apart and rebuild it to suit your needs. The best thing going for you is this community. Almost all questions will be answered and most will share their work. I will always pass along anything that I make as Lord of Worms and others seem to do. As you learn to script better it will all come easier. '> Good luck with your creation!!!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lightfoot8]

               

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Now the most common problem in a PW would ofcourse be to keep a lot of things "persistent". Basically means that if a door is not supposed to be permanently destroyed and you don't respawn it....it shouldn't be made able to bash in the first place (just and example...I know how to spawn doors....I think....).

 

You have this backwards,  When you reset a server you are reloading the game without any changes, unless for some reason you are reloading a saved game.    So your problem is tracking the changes that you want to keep not the changes that you don't want to keep.  When the module is reloaded the door will once again be there, as if it had never been destroyed.   If you want it to stay destroyed you will have to track it and redestroy it OnModuleLoad.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

DM_Vecna wrote...
There were some resources on the old forum but I am not sure if they are in the omnibus.
....
Honestly I would suggest choosing one of the prefabs as a base, take it apart and rebuild it to suit your needs.

Yeah its in the Omnibus....but the scripts are not usable there :-( Hopefully Bioware gets the legacy homepage and forum up soon....

About the prefabs. I try to use a minimalistic approach to design and scripting. I think you can do a lot by just how you design the module...without having numerous and complicated script systems. I could be wrong and even though I am aversed against advanced scripting systems I know once I used to love the ATS crafting system (not saying I will implement that one on my own PW...).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SuperFly_2000]

               

Lightfoot8 wrote...
 When you reset a server you are reloading the game without any changes

I am talking about within resets.

I'll be trying to keep resets to a minimum...for better "persistency" as I won't have persistent player locations and such...well maybe somewhat persistent...like remembering what main town the PC was in or so...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_KMdS]

               Super,
I would be happy to help you with anything I might have.  I have worked on NWN for close to 10 years and understand how many things work.  I have made many systems and would be happy to help you create a simple yet relatively powerfull base that could be published is desired.  Obvoiusly it would take a little time to put together but I am looking for something to do, hehe.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cmwise]

               I'm kinda with Super on this too. Currently working on a pw project and trying to integrate different systems from different authors and trying to keep it simple and all with only one years experience in scripting and building.

Prefab isn't custom enough and pw bloat means lag. But trying to pare down some of these systems is difficult at best. It's not like they are plug in units to make a bigger one..like legos eh?

Things like a simple rest/inn system, loot system, dare I mention xp systems? Bare bones systems that are easy to modify and work and play well with others. and naming protocols..easy for say 50 areas..but start moving towards 1000...it gets crazy.

The guide idea is great..but who has time?  This is my second run at a PW and I learn more each time, things to do first, things not to do, systems to use and how they work, hell havent even got to preventing cheaters-griefers-power levelers-exploits-etc...etc..

While I'm at it, I would like to thank the NWN1 community for the sanity they bring to building and scripting.  I enjoy the occasional sparring between the veterans..I just wish I knew what the hell they're discussing!!!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_KMdS]

               

cmwise wrote...

I just wish I knew what the hell they're discussing!!!

*laughs out loud!

*Can't get the smilies working, hehe
               
               

               

                     Modifié par KMdS, 02 octobre 2011 - 03:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_DM_Vecna]

               many of the systems offered on the vault are plug and play and offer commented scripts for adjustment.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cmwise]

               

DM_Vecna wrote...

many of the systems offered on the vault are plug and play and offer commented scripts for adjustment.

However, as much as we try they arent all compatible. That's what makes it interesting..

Just bashed and killed on the module with a buddy..it was kicks..so the smiles are returning..'>

And by the way DM, Sir ..tell that to my Custom Content order, Haks, overrides, tlk files, 2da modifications, they all think they're  the center of the NWN universe..as for documentation..well..did ya read my whole post?  The part about understanding what is being discussed and written and inferred and assumed...etc..My head is swimming in scripts..I'm having syntax nightmares...time for another beer..laters..:happy:
               
               

               

                     Modifié par cmwise, 02 octobre 2011 - 07:58 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Badwater]

               I've done modification of an existing PW as well as starting another from scratch. In the process I've picked up quite a bit on building large PWs, and like everyone else I continue to learn.

The biggest things I've taken from this so far:

- Have a coherent naming convention. When I took over building of our older PW, several builders had a hand in building all aspects. As a result it took (continues to take) way too much time to figure out what resrefs are what (Placeable? Item? Encounter? etc.) and where there is duplication. Assume you could die today - if someone is looking at your naming conventions, are they really going to have a clue?

Same goes for things like transitions. When I look at the tag ccn on a transition it drives me crazy. Why not just make it ClearCreekToNorthWoods? That brings up another thing - never automatically setup trigger transitions. It will create nonsense. If I have a transition with the tag ClearCreekToNorthWoods then I've made a waypoint WP_NorthWoodsFromClearCreek. It's so much easier to troubleshoot and easier for others to follow behind you and figure out what the heck your intentions were.

- Reduce the lag. There are two types of lag in PWs. In one type, your player freezes and then goes again. In the other, the player may be doing something like walking or running and then it's like they back up in time for a moment and do it again. The first type of lag is lag on the player end or connection; somehow, somewhere. By connection I mean that it could be the connection or connection speed on the player or server end, not just player. The second type of lag is server lag, always.

How to reduce lag? We found through a lot of testing that the #1 contributor to server lag is heartbeats. I don't give placed creatures or placeables a heartbeat unless there's a clear reason for it. If I can avoid it I will. As a result, we have virtually no server lag. Now I've heard about placeables and whatnot causing lag, and a large number of placeables will affect the loading time of an area but that's not lag to me. 8 years ago when I was playing NWN on a 400 with a dialup connection then placeables had an effect. I don't see that kind of issue these days. I read from one administrator that they refuse to limit the artistic vision of their builders, and I'd have to agree with that. I by no means use a state of the art computer but I do have very good line speed and I don't worry too much about the size of an area or number of placeables, understanding that extremes will cause craziness and is sloppy building.

- Build your small PW as if it's going to be a monster. Our older PW use to have over 1,000 areas and haphazard building, and we hit the hard resource limit. Combining areas, limiting small areas, eliminating useless or duplicate creatures, encounters, scripts, placeables, items, etc. was a huge task. If better building technique had been used at the outset then hitting that hard limit would not have happened. I'm building a second PW and it only has 100+ areas, but will never be in danger of worrying about resource usage because I built from the very beginning as if it were going to be a huge PW.

One other thing - the resource limit is 16k but we've run into anomolies sooner than that, so we don't run over 15.5.

I could probably contribute more comments if there's an interest in it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

                <being *way* too...>

Funkyswerve (and others) have written some pretty good tutorials in the Lexicon.There is even a pretty good one that compliments & expands what Badwater is saying about lag:-)

<...helpful with other people's efforts>