Custom Base classes and the PRC's spell casting system

[Legacy_henesua]

               How many people have tackled this?

Here's my situation:
I made all of the standard base classes into "prestige classes" and moved them down to row 50 and below of the classes 2da. I created a custom "Aristocrat" class at row 8, making it the only option for a level 1 character. Depending upon how the PCs play any or all of the prestige version of the base classes will be possible.

This all works fine.

The problem is that spell casting is screwed up now. The moved base classes now don't get their proper spells.

It looks like the PRC solved this problem with a complex arrangement of scripts, and perhaps feats as well. It appears that this is the best solution to solve my problem. However it looks complicated. While starting as a non-adventuring class was an important part of my module ... I'm thinking of scratching it. Modifying the PRC to serve my needs might be more than I am willing to take on.

So I am looking for encouragement if anybody has any. Is modifying the PRC for my purposes easy? Or am I looking at losing many hours to this? Anyone else try? What was your experience?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               No PRC handled it differently exactly for this issue. You cant move base classes as most stuff (spelllist, spellbook, monk AC, monk speed, ranger dual-wield etc.) is bound on class line in 2da. So if you move the class elsewhere you new class will have these abilities and old class will lose them.

The PRC used a feat-based-casting for new prestige classes that allows bard/sorc to get new spells. However this workaround is really bad and player on my server rather took wizard that dont suffer with it than use feat-based-casting :/.

Tell me exactly what you need to do and I tell you what I know.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I want to require the player to select a non-base class at first level, and then advance into the base classes as they become available.

In this mod, (a single player adventure) the player starts as a non-adventurer at level 1, and then is thrust into adventures. Essentially I've made level 1 equal to level 0.

I have been unable to enable the player to select non-base classes at level one. I have also been unable to restrict base class at level one.

If I could solve both of these issues without NWNX I would be happy, but I think I will have to settle for removing the non-adventuring class, and simply restrict which of the base classes can enter the game via an initialization script.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               What about premade character with custom base class? Its not possible to take at 1. lvl without NWNX workaround/client hack but its possible to make such character laboratory, I mean to remade it from nearest base class with GFF editor. Player then should be able to change the character name/history via game client. Not sure if race/gender too though.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               What about skills and feats and abilities? Can you adjust those via script?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               You dont have to. First you create char with lets say fighter. Then you modify the character via GFF editor or Leto and remove all feats, remove all skillpoints (if needed) and change class ID to lets say commoner (you might have to set this class to be for player or you might not be able to log in game). Then in your OnEnter script you check for commoner class otherwise boot.

Also you can maybe use PRC's CCC (custom character creator) but Im not sure how exactly dont use it myself. But it should be able to allow you to make commoner character/disable to create any other class) so you would be able to log into game.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 15 août 2011 - 11:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Thats an interesting idea. I'll have to think about it. I did want to give the player some ability to customize the character's starting condition - with skills and feats and ability scores. Is it possible to make those adjusts via script?

I've already got the appearance, alignment, and deity adjustment in the game. So this would work out fine if I could allow the player to adjust skills, feats, and ability scores in the starting area.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Failed.Bard]

               With NWNX, it would be possible to adjust the skills all down to 0, while keeping track of the skill points removed so that you can set the saved pool of them properly.  While it would be easier to simply let them level to 2nd in the starting area to get the skills set properly after that, there's no reason they couldn't be adjusted in a convo by allowing that saved skill points pool to determine how many can be spent still.
 Abilities likewise could be done fairly easily, though it'd take a bit of extra work if you wanted to use the same system as the vanilla creator for point distribution.
 Feats would be ugly, unless you're really limiting the number of choices at start up.  Not for any difficulty adding or removing them, but just for the sheer number of scripts it would take to handle all the default choices.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Thanks. I am aware that NWNX has the power, but I don't want to require a player to install it. The most I am requiring players to do is install HAKs and a TLK. No overrides to put in and out, and no wrappers for the EXE. If I ever bother to turn this into a PW, NWNX would definitely be the way to go, but this particular project is a single player adventure for download.

But did you mean to say that NWNX is needed for skills, and ability points and feats can be adjusted without? I have been unable to find a add/remove feat function. The best I can think to do is to create a "skin" and attach feats to it as item properties. But then... these feats still wouldn't show up on the character sheet.

[edit]

I'm thinking that the best solution will be to limit starting characters to Rogue and Sorcerer. Tweak the familiars so that familiars make sense with the story/setting. Isolate PCs of the wrong background/classes etc to a "jail" where an NPC convict explains what the character restrictions are (since they probably didn't read the readme). And lock the remaining base classes (using the prereq 2DA with a variable) until the player finds training or an NPC mentor in game.

I figure Rogue and Sorcerer are the least trained of the classes so it works from a story perspective. The player still gets to select skills, feats, and abilities. AND since I haven't given the players a weird non-class, their characters will be playable in other modules, even though the custom race I am using is different than the half-orc. I'm also liking the idea of starting with a familiar. I think I'll spend the week working on that side of the story in case the player goes that route.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 16 août 2011 - 01:14 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               There is not direcct RemoveFeat function but if you start with no feat (my suggestions will do that) you can then add/remove feats via skin and itemproperty bonus feat. You can find a full 2da for all feats available as bonus feat on vault under BH's Itemproperties Expanded. But it has a few limitations:
- some feats are just placeaholders and benefits are hardcoded to the class (rdd powers/monk AC/ranger dual/ranger FE/monk speed and more)
- feats like smite evil/good wont have uses per day if added from bonus feat, player can be able to spam them infinitely
- useable class specific feat like death arrow wont appear on other class radial unless you modify those class'  cls_feat_.2da

No way for abilities except bonus feat Great Ability but I dont think it works, though didnt tried yet (I use NWNX for that wasnt needed such workaroud). Abilities on skin are count towards +12 cap (and dont get fooled by those who say they arent).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 16 août 2011 - 01:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Thanks, Shadow. Thats all very useful to know. I appreciate your help here. For the reasons I spelled out above, I've decided to take this a different direction. I liked the idea of starting zero level, but without NWNX its too klunky for my tastes. I wish I got into using NWN a few years ago. Then I think it would be worth my time to build a PW with NWNX, but at this point I think I've only got two modules in me at most before I head back to Unity. The kind of stuff I am trying to do is better suited to building a game from scratch anyway.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Failed.Bard]

               I meant NWNX was needed for all of them, I just didn't say what I meant particularly clearly.  Since it's entirely server side in MP the players won't have to download anything for it.
 If this is for a SP module though, unfortunately there's not any way that I know of to adjust any of them without the player having to have the client extender (nwncx, I think it's called).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Got it. Thanks. I might make a multiplayer mod for this setting (I've got half of the areas built for one) with NWNX, but at present I'm focused on the singleplayer experience. I figured NWN was the right tool to make a single played D&D game, and learn as much as I can about making an RPG. But I'm so slow that I fear no players will be around by the time I got a PW live.