Author Topic: Emitter Science!  (Read 1048 times)

Legacy_Eurgiga

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Emitter Science!
« on: August 02, 2016, 05:39:05 pm »


               

So it was brought to my attention that emitters can project animated models.


 


Would it be feasible to use this to create a more modern head composition system? I.E. something like Morrowind, where the head and hair were independent objects.


If so, would it be feasible to cycle the vfx on the head similar to how one cycles the robe slot? (some scripting required in-module, obviously).


Further, could the hair models be animated via a new supermodel or two to track character movements and behave appropriately- a long ponytail whipping around during Whirlwind Attack, or hair splaying out when fallen, etc?


Lastly, would it be possible to have these models use .plt files, and (via module scripting again) then adjust the coloration?


 


I'm not asking anyone to do any of this for me, I'm just asking about feasibility before I go and dive into sciencing it.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_PLUSH HYENA of DOOM

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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 07:08:25 pm »


               

I've been making a number of Placeables with (quite large) animated objects devolving from emitters.


 


All those I've done so far repeat a basic animation cycle - rotating, oscillating, etc. That can certainly be done - and it has finally allowed me to hit with a socking dirty great big brick the irritation of being forced to have Placeables not set to static if they are to show any sign of life. Emitter based Placeables can be set to static without impeding their anim loops, unlike straightforward mesh node Placeables.


 


However, to do what you're musing upon regarding hair models, they would presumably require multiple animations for different situations and, I guess, something to govern what basic danglymesh would previously have achieved with regards blowing in the wind, etc. So I suppose the question is can an emitter govern multiple animations selectively? That I haven't tried.


 


Interesting idea though.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Quevy

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Emitter Science!
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 07:35:36 pm »


               

I believe that this was the initial idea of bioware when they created nwn, if you look in the game with nwexplerer there are 1 or 2 files beard and I think there are also hair files.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_PLUSH HYENA of DOOM

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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 07:41:29 pm »


               

There are also helmets as well, some quite nice ones which I added to the usable helmets years ago.


I remember looking at the nasty beards and things and don't think they were ever intended as anything other than static add-ons to a head model. Presumably they would have been script implemented, but I don't think they would ever have had animations...


 


Of course, I could be wrong... but the idea of peripatetic animate beards crawling around the place is just too disgusting to contemplate.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Eurgiga

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Emitter Science!
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 08:08:37 pm »


               


I believe that this was the initial idea of bioware when they created nwn, if you look in the game with nwexplerer there are 1 or 2 files beard and I think there are also hair files.




I think they began to move back in that direction with robes, and cloaks are a derivation of that principle. My offhand, pre-science guess is that any emitter slot can do what the robe slot does, and that I'll probably have to stick it on the supermodel for each race. So I'm fairly confident I can at least get a model that'll track the supermodel.


 


What I have no clue about is if the emitter will call animations like the robe slot does, thus allowing for things like a swaying, flapping, or flailing ponytail. Still, this would be sort of an extra bonus- having independently selectable hair that'll flex a bit as the head and neck move is already a leap forward over what we've got now.


 


 




However, to do what you're musing upon regarding hair models, they would presumably require multiple animations for different situations and, I guess, something to govern what basic danglymesh would previously have achieved with regards blowing in the wind, etc. So I suppose the question is can an emitter govern multiple animations selectively? That I haven't tried.


 


Interesting idea though.




 


Have to say I'd never even thought of danglymesh. I could never get it to work for me. Personally I'm not too happy with its effects for hair, it applies a single stretch to the entire model based on its horizontal motion, treating loose strands the same way as bound dreadlocks. It's not bad for other things, certainly. I've just never liked that hair didn't seem to respond to gravity or being gathered on the shoulders.


 


The main thing I'm after is the idea of creating a model that will parent to the player's supermodel like a robe does. That way even if I don't muck about with animating really long hair I've still got independently selectable hair that'll track head/neck/shoulder movement (depending on length). If the concept proves sound, I'd also want to play around with doing a reverse of this split by merging the head and neck with a movement-tracking emitter-based model. If content creation has taught me anything, though, it's that I'm going to hit some unexpected roadbumps, possibly even find the reason we ended up with play-doh-ball model composition rather than skeleton-based flexing models.


 


While I'm here, I've noticed that my toolset and game will hang for a tic if I load a model or player with more than 5000 polygons at once, and I take this to be the functional limit of the engine quickly loading new geometry. Has anyone else encountered this? I am no computer expert so I couldn't say with any authority where the bottleneck might be.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 11:19:30 pm »


               

With regards to the toolset/game hanging, were those models compiled or not?


 


TR



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Zwerkules

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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 02:36:21 pm »


               

This starts at around 4000 polygons if the models are not compiled. If you compile the models you can go at least thrice as high.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2016, 07:57:28 pm »


               

This still blows the model of a Laputa Soldier that I found on the web, out of the water at around 45,000 vertices out of the water.


 


TR



               
               

               
            

Legacy_PLUSH HYENA of DOOM

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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2016, 02:52:39 am »


               

Eurgiga - I cannot help but wonder just how well an emitter-based hair model will track the head model it's linked to in the fashion of a robe...


After all, NWN robes are far from bug-free with regards clean tracking.


How many times have I been frustrated by scripting a group of robed nutters to kneel and worship around their pagan idol, only to find that they're soon hopelessly out of sync and their heads flying about loose, out of time to their bodies. Robed characters often also get their heads out of sync to a greater or lesser degree in combat.


This conjures unwelcome visions of characters' hair suddenly shooting off to their sides and levitating about like disgusting Living Wigs From Hell whilst they are revealed to be shockingly bald... I never have been able to precisely nail why robes cannot follow exactly the Creature animations in time the way normal body parts can.


And just to really confuse the issue, the Drow Wizard Creature model, who is largely composed of one of the standard robes, works without losing his head all the time... at least until he annoys the Valsharess, anyway...