Interesting article on Longbows versus Crossbows

[Legacy_meaglyn]

               

Here is an academic paper about the use of the longbow by the English and why others let them keep this military advantage as long as they did. I thought some of you might find it as interesting as I did.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_3RavensMore]

               

Fascinating read.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               

Interesting is one word for it I guess, but gah.... MATH, they used MATH to explain things... my fuddled mind lost it at that stage so the later half of the diatribe remained UN-read by me.  Heck... if x = y, then why do you need a z in the fist place?  Having never had full exposure to even semi-advanced math... well, my missed education shows through I guess.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               

Join the club Bannor. However, this does make you the ideal person to tell me if the manual I included in the tool that I released makes sense to you. Please would you take a look and let me know if it is not too much to ask. Ignore the actual tool it's just the manual for RotateEm that I would value your opinion on (yes it contains maths, that's why I am asking).

 

Thanks even if you decline.

 

TR

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

Thanks for sharing this, meaglyn. Nice article.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grymlorde]

               

Yes, thanks indeed Meaglyn.

 

I've read the paper and have thought about it off and on for the past few days. I've decided that I disagree with the author's conclusions. While it's an interesting idea that centralized political stability encouraged the adoption of the longbow and the converse, fear of rebellion quashed the idea --- I just don't buy it.

 

The author did not examine any other nations besides England, Scotland, Wales, France, and the Netherlands/Belgium. What about the Holy Roman Empire? Norway, Sweden, or Denmark? And what about Japan which did adopt the longbow but not Korea, China, or anywhere else? Not to mention the Americas and Africa.

 

I think that for a dissertation on economic models, 1) the author should have reviewed far more nations and 2) developed the model after reviewing the data rather than picking a model and seeking data (failing that, rhetoric) to support it.

 

In short, interesting idea poorly researched.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               

Join the club Bannor. However, this does make you the ideal person to tell me if the manual I included in the tool that I released makes sense to you. Please would you take a look and let me know if it is not too much to ask. Ignore the actual tool it's just the manual for RotateEm that I would value your opinion on (yes it contains maths, that's why I am asking).

 

Thanks even if you decline.

 

TR

Hmmm... as I mentioned, math and I do NOT get along.  Your explanations seem valid enough assuming the math(s) are correct etc...

 

I don't know how well the engine handles placeables and -90, but I can tell you point blank that -90 is NOT the same to the engine as 270 when working with tiles, and may cause certain aspects of a tile to flat blow up.  It may be NWMax that has the issue, I can't remember exactly, but it was definitely a problem with tiles when we had objects using the -90 for orientation.  The problem NEVER shows up when using 270 instead.  There may be posts related to that in the forums on harvestmoonconsortium, or maybe even in the old Bioware forums, not really sure.  I just remember that there is a bug somewhere in either the exporting or importing with tiles that have a -90 orientation that we could only solve by correcting those numbers to be 270 instead.

 

However, you did warn folks that this was designed for placeables only, so I can only hope that the engine does not have the same issues with -90 when displaying them.

 

Otherwise, it looks like you explained things well enough, and likely more than really necessary for general users.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_meaglyn]

               

Well, the paper was not about general economic models but specifically about why it was that the people facing England's longbows (France, Scotland and Wales mostly) continued to let themselves get beat up by them for as long as they did rather than adopting the technology themselves to nullify that advantage.

 

I don't think Japan or countries that were not fighting England at the time are relevant.   This was not a general argument about why any random country did or did not adopt the longbow. It's very specific to the anomaly described. They did not build a model and then determine that England and it's foes at the time fit the model. It was the other way around. They are trying to find a model that fits the specific data about England and the people they were thumping with their longbows.

 

I thought it was reasonably well researched, but I'm by no means an expert on early European military technology '>

 

(BTW, we seem to have been well and truly hijacked ...)

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

Exactly, meaglyn. The paper goes into depth into a specific exception to a general rule. There aren't many (or perhaps any) nations relevant to such a study outside of what was discussed in the paper because its focused on the particular anomaly.

 

As far as describing the situation in particular, the paper makes a great deal of sense. If you want to threaten its thesis you need to counter it directly with another more plausible explanation. Otherwise, the explanation for the anomaly in this case stands. Thats how this sort of thing works.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               

As a UK resident I find it interesting that the welsh are included in that list as the majority of longbowmen at the battle of Agincourt were welsh... (damned american spellchecker knows nothing about Henry the 5th it seems) One other little thing that is not mentioned too often about that battle is that it was where the first Englishman was killed by a bullet from a firearm.

 

TR