Author Topic: Travois  (Read 877 times)

Legacy_DM Frayne

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Travois
« on: January 07, 2016, 03:11:04 pm »


               

One of the things I’d like to have in my Native American themed game world is dog travois and horse travois.


 


I’ve done a search to see if anyone has done this that came up blank, so I was wondering whether anyone has done something similar in a private PW or would be interested in creating something like this.


 


I remember seeing an ox and plough somewhere and I think someone even did a horse and coach as a moving model.  The main issue with such was the lack of articulation in the model which still had to rotate around a central point, so they would look a bit lame when turning. I’m assuming that’s still a problem with longer models unless there is some way to tether one model to another and get it to line up… just a thought.


 


With a dog travois I don’t think the lack of articulation would be an issue in that it’s a relatively short model. 


 


Anyway… any observations or advice welcome.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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Travois
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 03:48:49 pm »


               

Just looked it up on Google. Apparently a Travois is


 


 


a type of sledge formerly used by North American Indians to carry goods, consisting of two joined poles pulled by a horse.

 


TR



               
               

               
            

Legacy_DM Frayne

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Travois
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 04:28:27 pm »


               

I thought the hyperlinked pics were probably the quickest way of explaining what a Travois is but yes, you are right.


 


My game world Middlewater is initially pedestrian… horses will gradually be added at a later date. To quote an original, accurate and outrageously sexist source… “the only beasts of burden were dogs and women.”  I’m also using real weight encumbrance for most things, so when you consider a single buffalo might yield 1400lbs of useable meat any mechanism that can increase carry weight capacity is a boon.


 


Dogs are also to play a key role as companions in the game, as both fighting allies and an aid to tracking.  I’m using these ones from the CEP for village dogs:


 


Village%20Dogs_zps6ksizyhm.jpg



               
               

               
            

Legacy_DM Frayne

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Travois
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 05:12:05 pm »


               

Proleric has mentioned his work on this:


 


http://neverwinterva...ansport-concept


 



 


So the system already exists to connect a placeable-turned-creature to another creature model using wing and tail nodes. So all I need is a travois placeable of a suitable size for a dog.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_T0r0

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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 01:19:03 am »


               

IIRC correctly, there was a stretcher done in one of the CCC (DEc 2010). I also thought it would make a good mount for corpse runs. In other words, to accurately represent when a player picks up another dead body for whatever reason. Starting point at least IMHO



               
               

               
            

Legacy_DM Frayne

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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2016, 12:23:28 pm »


               

@TOrO


Thanks. Certainly interesting...


 


stretcher_zpsmgc9yhow.jpg


 


 


...but not the form of a travois, which is a dragged A-frame:


dog%20travois_zpsk4k5fdv2.jpg


Cuddly toy pooch optional...



               
               

               
            

Legacy_PLUSH HYENA of DOOM

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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2016, 04:19:28 am »


               

THE GOOD NEWS... I have made you a Dog Travois by creating a suitable sled model and firmly nailing gently tying it to a Malamute when it wasn't looking.


It's a single, fully-working Creature model. The Sled turns with the Dog but that doesn't actually look too bad, given its relatively small length and the fact that those poles wouldn't be flexible anyway.


DogSled1.jpg


THE BAD NEWS... Dogs have the habit of moving about. NWN Dogs are no exception. Even when standing still, they move; there's a sort of panting motif going on all the time.


This is bad news because OBVIOUSLY the Dog Harness must be tied round - wait for it - The Dog. Thus, any motion made by The Dog, hereinafter referred to as "The Uncooperative Canine Spleen", is transferred to the travois itself since it, in turn, must be linked to the harness. Thus, given the Dog's panting when at rest, the whole sled, baggage and all, tends to rise and fall somewhat as if breathing. This is faintly distressing.


When the Dog walks, the travois bounces up and down as the canine thorax rises and falls. In very flat, open terrain, this can look just a little comedic. If the fates conspire to make the Dog run, the bouncing activities of the travois become, shall we say, less than a benevolent symbiotic partner with real-world physical dynamics. (He means it looks silly; Fifi).


AT ALL COSTS the Dog must not be allowed to enter into combat, for then it is wont to lunge forward in a fearsome pounce... which is all very well except for the fact that as it does so, the travois flails up in the air as if utterly weightless. A Malamute's a powerful dog, but unless some tribe is transporting inflated hydrogen balloons in that baggage, this just looks ridiculous.


But it's not too bad when standing still and just walking normally.


DogSled2.jpg


In Conclusion... For the above reasons, I'm not happy with this yet. Obviously.


I have tried simply linking the travois to the model's Aurora Base so that it doesn't bounce about with the dog whilst having the Dog harness properly attached to the Dog's thorax. This works well in some respects but, at least to me, it isn't a viable alternative because you can see that the sled isn't actually tied onto the harness (which, let's face it, it sort of has to be, unless we're to accept that the Dog has arcane suction powers in its wake).


Ideally it probably needs a small skinmesh part for the leather ties joining the harness and the travois (squint at rubbish jpeg-distorted string things above) so that they stretch appropriately, but I don't have the time for that at the moment unfortunately. (Also, there's still the question of combat animation; when the Dog leaps, with the travois attached to the Aurora Base, the Dog leaves it behind with every lunge and then miraculously refastens itself). This is why, at present, I've just got the whole sled, baggage, harness assembly glued to the Dog itself; lesser of two evils.


As I say, I don't have much time just now since I've got to get all the new Maldrapur Chronicles stuff onto the Vault before I leave...


But this should provide a basic resource which, at some point, someone can perhaps rework and improve. You can always detach the travois from the Dog and use it as a Placeable model, sans chien. How that would work with a wing/tail noded Dog model I can't say, haven't had time to experiment.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Proleric

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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2016, 09:19:45 am »


               I guess it's a matter of taste as to which is the least silly.

Personally, I'm happier to imagine the harness, or have the dog move about in it, than have the travois itself move in an unexpected way. The tail model approach I used for the sleight prototype achieves that.

Maybe a win-win would be to implement the dog-and-harness as a moving tail, with the travois body as a rigid creature?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_DM Frayne

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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2016, 02:01:57 pm »


               

Either way I’m very grateful for the model PHoD.  It’s pretty much spot on.


 


When you get a moment can we have it as a placeable to try the other method?


 


Is the feathered pole attached to the model or just something in the background? Obviously given my mod I’m a sucker for all things


feathered, quilled etc.  Still trying to source a coup stick.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_PLUSH HYENA of DOOM

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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 03:28:01 am »


               

I can do a Placeable version of the Travois, without dog, no problem. It'll take ten seconds... Could maybe do two; a version in "tied to dog" position which you can turn into a Creature for use with Proleric's node procedure (I hadn't thought of making an animated dog as a tail - though how animated can it get? Combat?) Also maybe just a Placeable Travois, probably without the baggage, with the hitching poles pointing upward which you could have just leaning on a tepee or something, just as "set decoration"...


 


The hide and stick fence in the background on my above post is one of the billions of things I've done for Demoness Tales and will be available reasonably soon (ish) when I get round to updating the Demoness Tales Placeables Hak on the Vault.


The Feather Flag, plus the Totem Pole and these lovely Dreamcatchers were part of a small Hak I found a million years ago on the Old Vault.


Dreamcatchers.jpg


These aren't my creations (I just reworked them a bit to reset the ambient/diffuse values, that sort of thing) - I'm just showing them to nudge someone's memory since I can't remotely recall now, all these years later, the name of the Hak I found them in or its author. Bad, I know... Memory vaguely makes me think they were done for a German PW set in Chult...?


If you haven't got these, given the Native American theme you're pursuing, I'm sure they'd be of use and be worth hunting down. They must be migrated to the New Vault somewhere, so if someone can just recall the original name they were under, I imagine you could find them... If all else fails, I can repost the models, but I'm sure they must be lurking on the Vault somewhere.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Mecheon

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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 07:59:12 am »


               

Looks like they were from this one


 


Chult Placeables



               
               

               
            

Legacy_DM Frayne

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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2016, 05:51:57 pm »


               

Thanks. I’m actually already using the Chult stuff… it’s also in the CEP.


 


When I started my project I spent five days going through every submission on the Vault (and had the eye-strain to prove it) so hopefully I’ve seen most of what is currently available.  I may well have missed stuff buried in combo haks however and obviously won’t know about anything on PWs that has not been released.  So if anyone knows of anything suitable… you have my attention!


 


A lot of the stuff was intended for Mesoamerican settings, which isn’t really appropriate but I’m using some of it anyway as placeholders (e.g. Primitive Weapons).  


 


For those who want specifics… the player’s tribe is analogous to the prairie plains farmers of the upper Missouri (e.g. Pawnee, Mandan), but other tribes are also represented as allies and enemies. I wrote a 200 page ethnological study on the Mandan in the 90s for a previous project, so it’s a rich vein of source material for me… and unfinished business.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2016, 06:58:21 pm »


               

At 200 pages I sure hope you got your doctorate.


 


TR



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Zwerkules

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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2016, 07:27:18 pm »


               

I'm just showing them to nudge someone's memory since I can't remotely recall now, all these years later, the name of the Hak I found them in or its author. Bad, I know... Memory vaguely makes me think they were done for a German PW set in Chult...?



Those were done by JDA (who also made the dwarven halls tileset).

Ignore this. Mecheon already posted a link. '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Ssythilac

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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 12:26:43 am »


               

Ahh, I`m afraid that 200 pages is not enough for a doctorate... Not even near. Trust me, I`m working in one, and I`m afraid that the whole monster ends driving me into the total MADNESS.