Author Topic: Trolls (not forum trolls)  (Read 1059 times)

Legacy_Zwerkules

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Trolls (not forum trolls)
« on: July 30, 2015, 08:09:12 pm »


               

Has anybody seen a proper troll model made for NWN or is working on one?


The troll that came with the OC is so bad it is unusable.


So someone made a new troll model which is certainly a nice model, but it doesn't look like a troll to me. Who ever came up with the idea that trolls are green? Not only in D&D games like NWN are trolls green, but also in the elder scrolls games and possibly more.


Trolls should be brown and hairy!


I did an image search for trolls and found pretty few that really looked like trolls should look. The one that came the closest (even if it's a bit comic-like) is this:


 


1355355194531419935troll-md.png


 


Trolls should be ugly, hairy and have big ears and a huge nose, but not a long pointed nose like the newer NWN troll model has nor should it be a hooked nose. Also notice the tail.


I read over a hundred fairy tale and folk lore books and though not all of those that have trolls in them say that trolls have tails, more than half do.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_3RavensMore

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Trolls (not forum trolls)
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2015, 09:47:50 pm »


               

I don't know Zwerk, that little guy looks kind of cute--as far as trolls go.  



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Trolls (not forum trolls)
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2015, 09:49:37 pm »


               

Kinda looks like the ones from the Willow movie! I like it. Make it uglier in the face and we could use it, especially if it has animations to walk upside down on ceilings or the undersides of bridges.


 


Willow_036_9900.jpgcavetroll4zw.jpg


 


On the topic of DND trolls, some of the legend lore says that green swampy spongy trolls are male green hags and/or are creatures made by the green hags as servants. I often run with that theme when I portray green DND trolls in my worlds. I also keep the extra-planar connection strong with my hags. That makes trolls less orc or giant -like, and more a servant of something more powerful in a definite chain. Escaped trolls or trolls no longer under the command of green hags become more zombie like, personable, or mutate out of their original shapes, and I use that to explain things like DND scrags.


 


I personally loved the variation of frost and ice trolls in the Aurilite areas of Icewind Dale for the Infinity Engine. They held fairly fast to the long-time portrayal of the troll "species" in DND, but gave variations in function and scale.


 


The more recent portrayals of trolls as thinking creatures, which could somehow issue commands or even wear gear, just blows my mind. I am not unopen to change, but the niche that newish troll portrayal filled was already crowded.


 


Anyway, back to the non-dnd troll topic: I've seen a lot of prototype drawings of how people would like to portray trolls in various games. Most of them never follow through with the really neat looking stuff. Some of the stuff I have seen take curly rams horns and mix them with a hulking body, and toss in some elf ears like these:


 


harrypotter_03.jpg



               
               

               
            

Legacy_meaglyn

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Trolls (not forum trolls)
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2015, 10:04:23 pm »


               

DnD trolls are not your lives-under-the-bridge fairy tale creatures.  I believe they came from Poul Anderson fantasy novels. That's where the regeneration and kill with fire comes from. Probably the green as well, but as the book I have (The Broken Sword) is still on my nightstand unread I can't say for sure.  Playing At The World by Jon Peterson is a fascinating history of role playing games and includes a detailed look at the origins of DnD including the literary bases for many of the classic monsters.  He's got a blog site too


 


I personally like the DnD trolls. They are mean and scary, not so much cute and furry. 6 + 6 HD, regeneration and three attacks, great for putting some fear in non-monty-haul parties! They will certainly be making appearances in my world.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_The Mad Poet

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Trolls (not forum trolls)
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 11:15:35 pm »


               

Search the term 'elf'. You'll get Christmas elves, Tolkien elves, Norse elves, and heck even those Harry Potter elves. These kind of terms change with the authors, geography, and culture. No 'Troll' is any more 'Real' than any other. That is unless you have pictures of real trolls. In which case please share.  '<img'>


 


With that said I've only seen one like that. One of the CODI models. Fensir. Big nosed kind of guy. Though some of the goblin models approach a rather 'Cute' status. Maybe blow them up a bit and retex them? I dunno.


 


It's here, top row, fifth from the left.


 


1151024855fullres.jpg



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2015, 12:55:55 am »


               

Have you looked at the movie "Troll Hunter"? Here's some stills etc on google image search.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_The Mad Poet

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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2015, 01:16:30 am »


               


Have you looked at the movie "Troll Hunter"? Here's some stills etc on google image search.




 


I've seen it. Yeah, I meant like real trolls.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2015, 01:29:23 am »


               

doh, wrong forum



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Mecheon

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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 09:08:39 am »


               

Yeah, D&D calls mythological trolls Fensirs because they already used the name elsewhere


 


Obligatory 2E Monster Manual link, as they were a Planescape race and all



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Grymlorde

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Trolls (not forum trolls)
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2015, 05:54:15 pm »


               

I took the easy way out. . .


 


Ogres are now called Trølls and Trolls are now called Grendels or Grendelowes.


 


There is evidence to suggest that the Grindylow/Grundylow/Grendelowe is derived from Grendel. And the stories about Jenny Greenteeth and her relatives bear a strong resemblance to the Grendel Folk stories.


 


I suspect that when Poul Anderson described Trolls as he did, he was half-remembering a (bad) Beowulf translation that described Grendel as a troll. I certainly remember reading a version of Beowulf that called Grendel a troll before I'd discovered D&D.


 


Point being that the D&D Troll is based on Grendel & his mother and the variations in the following millennium and thus worth preserving but with an appropriate name.


 


Whereas 'ogre' is a 17th century French word created by Charles Perrault to describe Trolls.


 


That's my reasoning at least.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_The Mad Poet

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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2015, 05:57:15 pm »


               

And this, for me, shall ever be a dwarf.


 


dwarf.jpg



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tchos

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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2015, 06:32:05 pm »


               


There is evidence to suggest that the Grindylow/Grundylow/Grendelowe is derived from Grendel. And the stories about Jenny Greenteeth and her relatives bear a strong resemblance to the Grendel Folk stories.


Whereas 'ogre' is a 17th century French word created by Charles Perrault to describe Trolls.


 


Interesting that the name Greenteeth may share an etymology with Grendel.  It seems plausible.


 


While I don't dispute that Perrault may have been the first person to have used "ogre" in writing, the ogre he describes in the cited work (Histoires ou Contes du temps passé, 1697, specifically in Le Maistre Chat), is an intelligent shapeshifter who owns lands and presides over them in a fine human-style castle, and has a civil, if slightly brusque, conversation with the protagonist.  Are you saying that's a troll?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2015, 07:19:30 pm »


               

I'm pretty sure lower michigan land owners are looked upon by the northern folks the same way, especially when they pay taxes for no benefits (generally). They even call us trolls.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Frith5

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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2015, 11:48:41 pm »


               


I'm pretty sure lower michigan land owners are looked upon by the northern folks the same way, especially when they pay taxes for no benefits (generally). They even call us trolls.




That's because we live 'below the Bridge'  (Mackinac Bridge). '<img'>


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2015, 12:12:29 am »


               

Tchos, is there a typo in "Le Maistre Chat"  - shouldn't that be "Le Maitre Chat"  i.e. The Master Cat aka Puss in Boots?


 


TR