Head and cloak issues in the CPP and Project Q

[Legacy_Sir Roderick]

               

PLT is not a texture, PLT is a file that controls colorization. Meaning what on the texture is hair and what is skin. CPP adds tatoos into head to allow color lips/eyes. I dont see how this could alter the actual head in any way.

 

Interesting! PLT files are usually referred to as textures. Here for example:

http://ccg.animecafe...es#PLT_Textures

 

Quote from that definition:

"So what is a PLT. It is a file format that holds grey scale images which have been built from collapsing a number of grey scale images. There are up to 10 image layers..." And then it lists those layers: skin, hair, tattoo1, tattoo2, etc. But isn't that basically everything that makes up the head texture, in many different layers that refer to the palette files?

 

 

I dont think this is correct. CPP does not replace textures (DDS/TGA) only models, those uses the same textures so it should not be caused by CPP.

 

Okay. Open NWN Explorer, click open "NWN: HotU Patch Data" -> "data\patch171.bif" -> "Textures, PLT", and you can examine all the PLT files included in the Patch. Most of them are the right size. A few of them are very small, those are the low-resolution textures. Those are the ones I listed in my post. And here you can see that your patch also contains files pmh0_head050.plt - pmh0_head063.plt. But if you click open the folder "Models, Pheno", also in "data\patch171.bif", you'll see the Patch does not contain any head models (as it shouldn't, since the coloring of the eyes and lips is totally done with the plt files). And this is precisely the reason for the grotesque-looking human male heads 50-63: you're replacing the helmet plts with new head plts, but you're not replacing the helmet mdl files. The head plts 50-63 shouldn't be there at all.

 

 AND even if CPP actually overrided textures, it would not appeared the way you see because the CPP is BIF and bif has lowest priority, the textures from bif are used only if you are running on lowest details (or you dont have texturepacks folder in your installation).

 

Hmm, come to think of it, I haven't investigated whether those low-resolution heads show up ingame - my screenshot was the human male head #2 from Project Q, which is in an overriding hak. But on the other hand, we can see the grotesque heads 50-63 do show up ingame, and they do replace default helmet plts... One thing to consider is that these plt files from patch171.bif are also in xp2_gui.erf... which is in the "Texture Packs" category in NWN Explorer, and which is another file that is from your patch. And does that file have higher priority if your bif file does not?

 

 

If someone can verify this I will look into it but im currently not around NWN stuff...

 

Take your time, Shadooow. I suspect that the low-resolution head bug is something that has been around for as long as the guy who first started coloring the lips and eyes on the faces extracted them from the game data and took a few of his files from the wrong place by mistake... and then those low-resolution head plts just got copied and copied and copied and copied into most of the custom content that has head overrides. So if the custom content community has lived with this bug for years and years, they can live with it for a while longer.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Okay so its technically a texture but it cant do what your screenshots shows. PLT has no low res / high res and it does not alter the quality of dds/tga textures.

 

The texture you see in the game is from dds/tga not plt.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gruftlord]

               

for what it's worth, i was able to replicate the cloak issue on male dwarves. Imho it's also unimportant what is the reason of the low res heads, fact is, they are there. Do you see them in your game shadooow, and if not, can we find the parameters, under which tey are displayed? Fwiw, plts do of course have a resolution, and it may be possible, that one of the plts in question has a lower resolution than the original dds/tga is replaces.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Roderick]

               

Okay so its technically a texture but it cant do what your screenshots shows. PLT has no low res / high res and it does not alter the quality of dds/tga textures.

 

The texture you see in the game is from dds/tga not plt.

 

Okay. The basics:

 

All the textures for tiles, creatures, etc. are in tga/dds format.

 

All the textures for body parts (including heads) are in plt format.

 

If your statement "The texture you see in the game is from dds/tga not plt" was true, you could point me to the exact tga/dds files that contain the head textures. But there are none. Whereas I've given the names of the plt files that contain the bugged head textures in the firsts two posts in this thread. In NWN Explorer you can visually see those plt files. So, have a look at them at some point.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Roderick]

               

for what it's worth, i was able to replicate the cloak issue on male dwarves.

 

Excellent! Cloak bug verified.

 

 

Imho it's also unimportant what is the reason of the low res heads, fact is, they are there.

 

The reason is important too, because when Shadooow understands the reason, he can fix the problem.

 

I wrote my own suggestions for solutions in those first two posts here.

 

Basically I fully understand the logic behind the head bugs, but I don't understand the cause of the cloak bugs (more specifically than being able to tell that it's related to a_da and a_dfa), because I don't know much about animations.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

Bug #3:


Cloak animations for half-orcs are broken in the CPP and Project Q.


I played through the OC as a half-orc and didn't even realize that the cloaks were supposed to have animations.


With an unmodified game, cloak animations work for half-orcs.


With the CPP, cloak animations don't work for half-orcs of either gender.


With Project Q (with or without the CPP below it), cloak animations work for female half-orcs but not for male half-orcs.


For humans of either gender, cloak animations always work. I haven't tested with other races except for humans and half-orcs.

 

Just confirming what I already knew as I've been up and down all the dynamic animation supers numerous times over the years. All Q has ever done is add animations or replace old DLA animations that were never scrapped when the horse animations were finished. We never touched cloaks on the base animation supers.

 

Anyway, I've run through a a test module with the Project Q haks attached in a vanilla install of NWN 1.69. Cloaks animate correctly for ALL races and genders. This issue is NOT related to Project Q. 

 

Not sure why you get the issue with CPP installed and Q on top. The Q animation supers, which are loaded through a hak, will overwrite anything modified by the CPP. 

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Roderick]

               

Thanks for your reply Pstemarie. After your reply, I retested again:


- first, I made sure everything else was off (Override folder renamed, nwnpatch.ini renamed, CPP versions of xp2patch.key and xp2_gui.erf renamed and the original backups of those two files restored)


- then I redownloaded the manual installation package of Project Q 2.0 from the Vault and re-installed everything in it except for its auto-updater, replacing all files


- started a new game of Q_Base_NoHorses with a new male dwarf


- typed "##DebugMode 1" and "##dm_spawnitem nw_maarcl031" to spawn in a Nymph Cloak +1


- took a screenshot of the dwarf running with his unanimated cloak:

 

 

- started a new game of the Prelude of the OC with a new male dwarf


- typed the same commands and took a screenshot of this dwarf running around with his animated cloak:

 

So, what are we doing differently? About the only thing I don't have here is the Q autoupdater, but I don't suppose it's added anything new that could explain the difference?

 

Not sure why you get the issue with CPP installed and Q on top. The Q animation supers, which are loaded through a hak, will overwrite anything modified by the CPP. 

 

I think the CPP actually doesn't affect the animations at all with Project Q installed. The Project Q haks override it properly, as they should. One proof of this is that this is another test where I had the CPP off, and I had the problem with Q alone. Another proof is that CPP's cloak bug also affects female dwarves and half-orcs, Q's cloak bug affects only males.


So, I have no idea why we're getting different results.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Roderick]

               

I found the files that cause the Project Q cloak bug in my game.


If I have all the other modifications off but create an nwnpatch.ini file that has "PatchFile000=q_race" and nothing else, half-orc cloak is stiff.


If I instead have an nwnpatch.ini file that only lists a custom hak that contains all the files from q_race.hak except for a_ba.mdl and a_da.mdl, the half-orc cloak moves!


If that custom hak has all the files from q_race.hak except for a_da.mdl, the cloak is stiff. Also, if it has all the files except for a_ba.mdl, the cloak is stiff. Both of them have to be removed in order for the cloak animations to work.


To get them working for a fat half-orc, a_ba2.mdl and a_da2.mdl have to be removed in addition to a_ba.mdl and a_da.mdl.


So, this bug is caused by those four files within q_race.hak.


You may not be seeing this in your game Pstemarie, but in my game I'm seeing it and here it's caused by those files in Project Q.


I encourage others to test whether they see what I see or what Pstemarie sees: just run around with a cloaked male half-orc or dwarf or gnome in the Q starter module, for example. What you're looking for is whether the cloak moves (swings, billows, expands, contracts) or whether it stays stiff.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

So far verified the cloak issue. its caused by a_ba.mdl which I got from here. Project Q uses the same one with more customizations, Looks like this fix brings more troubles than benefits :/. Its not my fix so the only solution is to remove this file from my patch. Maybe Pstemarie or OTR wil be able to fix this.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

As for heads. I see the mentioned heads low res whether I have CPP on or off.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Roderick]

               

So far verified the cloak issue. its caused by a_ba.mdl which I got from here. Project Q uses the same one with more customizations, Looks like this fix brings more troubles than benefits :/. Its not my fix so the only solution is to remove this file from my patch. Maybe Pstemarie or OTR wil be able to fix this.

 

Good. Now we're getting somewhere.

 

I guess removing the modified file entirely is better that what we have now, and best of all would be if someone who knows this stuff really well, like OTR or Pstemarie, could make a version that fixes the present bug but also incorporates whatever other fixes or changes were supposed to be added into it.

 

 

As for heads. I see the mentioned heads low res whether I have CPP on or off.

 

How did you switch the CPP off? Earlier in this thread we said that it can be switched off by reverting to the unmodified backup of xp2patch.key, but that's not entirely accurate. When we're dealing with textures, we also have to restore the unmodified backup of xp2_gui.erf in the texturepacks folder.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

How did you switch the CPP off? Earlier in this thread we said that it can be switched off by reverting to the unmodified backup of xp2patch.key, but that's not entirely accurate. When we're dealing with textures, we also have to restore the unmodified backup of xp2_gui.erf in the texturepacks folder.

Indeed. I didnt restored xp2_gui.erf as I dont have a backup at all. Im not aware I would have anything head related here though, afair there is only a barkskin texture, but maybe im wrong.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gruftlord]

               

Get nwn explorer reborn, it is awesome if you want to have a look at what is in which file. Afaik there are a few things more in the erf than the barkskin.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Roderick]

               

All your head plts are there (as well as in patch171.bif). The unmodified xp2_gui.erf contains no plt files. For testing purposes, you can just move the modified file out of the folder without restoring the original.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sir Roderick]

               

Get nwn explorer reborn, it is awesome if you want to have a look at what is in which file.

 

Certainly, in case you don't already have this program, get it. Besides being awesome it's also the most convenient way to browse through all the plt files (as well as all other unmodified and modified game files).