CEP 2.61

[Legacy_Proleric]

               

The new content is excellent. Probably the best way to get support is to ask questions in this forum, where most of the people who know their way around it hang out.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

Sorry everyone, I may give this another crack once I am in a better place.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

I will tell you all this. This is my perspecitve on CEP. 

 

To me, and I have been a builder for about 4 years, I look at default NWN as having the primary colors in an artists' pallet. Things like cep add additional colors (like magenta, or aqua marine, ect...) As such, and as an artist, I am very interested in diversifying my pallet.

 

I am grateful to the originators of endevors like this (or PCR) for providing this content. In truth you all are the true artists. But just like the paint manafactures produce are likewise, their paints would not be worth much with out people (artists) using them to express them selves.

 

Here is to hoping to fill my and other's pallets with some more awesome (and hard worked for, I am sure) colors.

 

Lazarus Magni.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

I recenty (a couple months ago) recommended to our community that players update to CEP 2.6(+) under the assumption that regardless of if the world did or not, it was backwards compatible.

 

And I certainly was interested in updating the world to this as well. But when I attempted to do so, it broke one of our systems (same thing happened with 2.60, but I was under the impression it was fixed in 2.61.)

 

Regardless, I still maintained my endorsement for players to upgrade. I like to see community progjects supported, at the very least by virtue of numbers of people using it.

 

But it turns out, 2.61 is not backwards compatible for certain phenotypes. E.G. if a player has changed their phenotype to something (e.g. [and this is not a specific example] a roper) they can no longer log that toon in after updating on their end to 2.61 on a world using 2.3.

 

I am pretty disappointed by this. I have been bringing this issue to the developers attention since 2.6 came out, and despite being assured this was fixed with 2.61, apparently it was not.

 

Subsequently our world is not updating to 2.61, nor do I recommend any of our players to update either, lest they no longer are able to log in.

 

That's messed  up. And really sad. Everything 2.0+ has been 2.0+ compatible until 2.6.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mecheon]

               

But it turns out, 2.61 is not backwards compatible for certain phenotypes. E.G. if a player has changed their phenotype to something (e.g. [and this is not a specific example] a roper) they can no longer log that toon in after updating on their end to 2.61 on a world using 2.3.

That's not a phenotype? That's an appearance. Phenotypes are normal/large, mounted and different animation sets, while appearances would be ropers and the like

 

Now if I remember right some phenotype stuff may have been slightly adjusted around between haks, so if you're not using everything that could be the issue, but appearances shouldn't have that sort of issue. What occurred with this one?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

Well I don't know what the difference between a phenotype and appearance is. In the world of biology (where the term phenotype came from) they pretty much mean the exact same thing.

 

We have an appearance changer on our world (or phenotype changer.) It determines the PC's size and speed and only allows them to have the option of changing to other appearances/phenotypes that have the same parameters.

 

Installing this version of CEP (or 2.6 for that matter) completely breaks that system. When the dialog comes up all the options are dysfunctional. So this is why I opted not to go with CEP 2.6(+) on our world, because this was a very popular feature for our players. But I still encouraged folks to go ahead as players and update to 2.61.

 

Until it turns out one player who did, could no longer log in one of their toons (their main toon in fact.)

 

Once we narrowed down the problem, and I suggested her reverting back to CEP 2.3 or 2.4, bam the problem was fixed.

 

I would call that not backwards compatible if you were to ask me.

 

The problem might not be that big. This is what the player reported doing, rather than a complete revert:

 

"In the end I simply replaced the 2.6 add phenos Haks with the 2.4, and it worked"

 

Sounds like the problem is isolated to this. But having to piecemeal together a combination of different CEP 2.0+ versions, seem not right to me.

 

And again I am not trying to come off as an ungrateful azzhole for the work that was put into this. I know this must have been a lot of work, and I wish we could be one of the worlds to update to this. But, damn we can't have this update breaking things for us, and it's sad because CEP was supposed to be a universal hak pack that multiple worlds could all use, so that players could play them all. And after Aventia using CEP through multiple generations of CEP, and owners, to have the currnent version, not only break a system in our world when installing it, but also make it so those players who update, might have problems like this seems like a big ole slap in the face for a world that has supported, promoted, and championed CEP for what? A decade?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

Laz, sounds like the scripting needs to be updated, but I'm not really sure as I don't use CEP. My guess is that the CONSTANT references inside the scripts are no longer valid with the changes made in CEP 2.61. Most likely - and if typical scripting convention was followed, these constants are defined within an include file and would be easy to change without having to hunt through a ton of scripts.

 

As far as the difference between appearances and phenotypes - at least for NWN...

 

Appearances are listed in appearance.2da and the model is a singular entity defined with a model name listed under the RACE column. An appearance is NEVER a parts-based creature, although parts'based creatures (e.g. the playable races) are listed in appearance.2da.

 

Phenotypes are listed in phenotype.2da and comprise the model components necessary to make up a parts-based model. The phenotype also defines the animation set which is used by the model. The models have a very specific naming convention - pmh0_chest001 - where....

 

P = Part

M = Gender (m = male, f = female)

H = Race (a = halfling, d = dwarf, e = elf, g = gnome, h = human, o = half-orc)

0 = Phenotype (this number corresponds to a line in phenotype.2da and tells the model which animation set to reference)

_ = just a spacer

 

CHEST = the body part (these are self explanatory)

001 = the model number

 

Note that these models - with the exception of head models - will always reference the human PLT texture with the same gender and number regardless of racial type and what is specified in the bitmap parameter in the internal references of the model. For example, pmh0_chest001.mdl will always use pmh0_chest001.plt, even if another texture is specified internally.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               

Strange. The cep2_add_phenos*.hak files are identical in 2.4 and 2.61.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Failed.Bard]

               

  If they were trying to load in, and their current appearance didn't have anything in the 2da line that matched it, they'd have issues.

 I haven't followed the cep project since 2.3, really, but if part of the overhaul was removing some of the broken and poorly made creatures that had made their way into it over the years, and they'd happened to have been using one of those appearances,that'd probably do it.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               Fact - no appearances were deleted between 2.3 and 2.61.


21 appearance lines changed model (which wouldn't cause the problem). Of those, 14 were models with no selectable description in 2.3.


Rather than speculate, or rely on recollections which don't seem to be quite right, perhaps Lazarus Magni could start a new thread in the scripting forum, posting the script in question and any correspondance with TAD on the matter.


For any package, backward compatibility doesn't necessarily mean that scripts will still work, if their assumptions weren't well-founded.


I'm not involved with CEP, except as a user, but I have an interest in getting it right.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lazarus Magni]

               

Well thanks for the responses everyone.

 

One correction, I believe about the appreances, is there are things called "dynamic" appearances. e.g. Dynamic appearance dwarf, hafling, ect...

 

I really don't know what the issues is. All I know is CEP 2.6 (and 2.61) both broke this system for us when it was installed on the world (the dialog still comes up, but you can't select any of the options, and in fact they don't even tell the appearance name any more.) And also with the world still just using CEP 2.3, some players with 2.6 (and 2.61) both have had problems. In the latest instance, the player could not log in. In a previous instance (with a different player) the player could log in the toon, but could not move.

 

And as far as what "fixed" it for this most recent player, I don't really know what she did, but that's what she reported to me as having done.

 

When I have time, I may try to post on the scripting forums if I can hunt down that include. Thanks for the input you all, and again I didn't mean to come off as ungrateful to all the work that was put into this project. I have looked it over, and there is a ton of new content in there that looks great, and I am sure took a lot of work.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gruftlord]

               Not sure if this is the right place to post bug reports for CEP, but anyway, i found a few that creeped in from a vanilla error.

the models
1163 "Kobold: Ice Noble* (the Dremolaria project)" **** Ice_Kobold c_icekobchief
1814 "Kobold: Flying Chief A*" **** Kobold_Flying wg_kobchiefa
1815 "Kobold: Flying Chief B*" **** Kobold_Flying wg_kobchiefb

need to have their envmap setting changed from "**** " to "default" or else their helmet and armor appear semi-transparent.
more info here:
http://forum.bioware...ead/?p=20141145
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_3RavensMore]

               

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that CEP pretty much died with AD bowed out.  That's not a critique of him--maintaining it had to be a massive amount of work. 

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gruftlord]

               Oh, i was under the impression, that the CEP would have slipped under a new management. Sure looked like it back when TAD passed the scepter. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_KlatchainCoffee]

               

Lingering communication breakdowns can happen when RL gets busy and initial plans stall...

 

I have faith that this is nothing fatal, just there's need to put some heads together and perhaps make enough noise to get any extra help onboard that handling/updating/fixing CEP could surely use.