Author Topic: Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)  (Read 12215 times)

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #600 on: November 20, 2015, 11:53:09 pm »


               

A bit unrelated to the black hills tileset, but I was trying to get back interest in water features. While playing some Drakensang Online, I was sketching out all it takes to make their wave-filled ocean scenes. I think I got it down, and it comes out pretty good. Just needs a little tweaking, and then pick out an enmap, and I should be able to make a water that waves, sparkles, slides, and animates all at one time, using only two medium poly planes, and about 10 frames.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_KlatchainCoffee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #601 on: November 21, 2015, 12:39:15 am »


               


...  wave-filled ocean scenes. ...




 


Yes please. '<img'>


 


There is the moving sea water from TNO and that sea travel placeable stuff done by W0rm and some others...   But anything that would make the ocean or the beach surf (or even waves smashing against rocks) more real.... '<img'>  


 


 


By the way, I finally downloaded the granite hills tileset and played around with it. As any WIP, it's rough around the edges, but I really think it has the makings of one of the best tilesets out there. It's inspiring to see you work in general, but I hope you will complete this one and make into something truly amazing. '<img'>


               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #602 on: November 21, 2015, 01:21:12 am »


               

I really really want to. Starting possibly tonight, I will mostly be snowed in, until I start school in January, so it has that going for it.


 


The water that has already been done is similar to the one I'm working on. From what I remember of that one, I did like it, but found it fairly plain. I also have a rocking sea tileset planned. What It will be is an ocean that actually moves around the few tiles you can actually stand on. Your perspective from the ship will stay fixed as you walk around on deck, but the entire area around you will rock and roll around, churning as 50 ft waves crash around. Because we can create an entire area on a single tile, this should be fairly easy, but because any single tile can only export so much going-on per frame using nwmax animesh, it can be broken into a tile group instead.


 


So this waves thing right now is a placeable I am testing, and you might see it in the wizard's tower package I put out this month for CCC. it has a 5x5 wave grid. When half go up, the other half go down. On top of that, anything that goes up also has the texture shifted toward the point, so it looks like the foam on top churns to the peaks of the waves, or stretches as it rolls through the trough. Below that, a second animated mesh slides by at 45 degrees on the x/y plane, causing texture noise and more watery look. That texture will eventually have an environment map set, and will also use TXI to animate just the alpha channel. Hopefully that will fully duplicate the waves from Drakensang.


 


The model I have now has a simple up and down motion, but does not crest in a sine wave, and looks jerky. I just need to triple the frames and create the sine effect in both the vertical motion, and the texture bunching. Even now, it looks pretty close to what they did. I just wish I had a texture as good as theirs.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #603 on: November 21, 2015, 01:29:33 am »


               

They've got a second type of wave which is just a 2D wave directed at the shoreline. It hits straight on, so looks a little gimpy. It comes out about like the one in Dungeon Siege I around the black-sand lakes. I much prefer the ones around the ocean beaches that come in at an angle. I duplicated the black-sand beaches from DS1 years ago and still have the models around somewhere. It used animated bones instead of animesh, so I'd like to convert it to animesh and reuse it.


 


The straight-to-beach waves in drakensang have about a 20 cm wave height maximum, and are very transparent, which leads me to believe by the colors shown, that there are about three planes of water stacked on top of each other which complete the deep water look. It comes across looking more like there is a fog below the topmost water plane, and that might actually be what they did somehow. Not sure.


 


Anyway, I much prefer to work on the 3d wave noise than the 2d wave at the moment. I even smoothed it off by applying two wave modifiers to it at right angles in gmax. Wave mods alone were too plain, so I stacked them with the animated manipulation structures.


 


I need to fine a setup that lets me create GIF videos really easily.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #604 on: November 21, 2015, 02:15:29 pm »


               

So last night I ran into this issue I should have remembered when playing with OTR's envmapped animesh.  Basically on mine, I can't see it. I'm sure it's working, because OTR's stuff works in the video. But I can't see it to test it on mine. So no shiny animated water for me at all ever it seems. Not on this kind of machine anyway. I guess I will offer the animated mesh stack, and just let somebody else play with the rest. It won't do me any good as I had intended it.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #605 on: November 22, 2015, 12:45:33 am »


               

Due to the visual impossibilities of my animated water attempt, at least on my computer, I went back to working on the mountain streams, just so I don't get lost in stacks of other crap which will eventually make me not finish this project.


 


I specifically went back to working on the corner to corner stream maker scripts becuase I really really really want to see what that would look like for real on that mountain setting, and then judge with a proper example if that is the way I want to go. Running around the deep gullies on the testing module I definitely feel that is the only logical way to go, because edge to edge streams simply cannot go in that place, so it will not look like a real mountain stream cascading down a slope. As I mentioned a few pages back they have their own issues, but I think I can work past those and ignore the extra load of required tiles.


 


After weeks of not working on this trig, I'm having a problem wrapping my brain (double caffeinated brain) around a negative formula for the diagonal stream. Just so you can see what I'm up against, here is the diagonal stream height formula for top left to bottom right:


 


y=((-cos (radiansToDegrees (pi*x)))+1.0)/2.0 ..... '<img'> haha. No seriously.


 


My double caffeinated brain is easily distracted when christmas music is playing, and a child is ignoring that in addition to constantly begging his mama for help with a game he is too young for. "Mama mama mama mama mama" at a very low yet high pitched tone. It is no wonder that I cannot simply figure out exactly what to replace -cos with, or if that is even going to work for a topleft to bottomright formula.


 


I suppose I will put this off a little longer and hope for the best in the two days I have next week to myself.


 


I've also been examining the recently uploaded Skyrim textures Tonden_Ockay put up, and I'm seeing a different way of splitting my meshes which does not have so many visible seams at the cliff edges. While I purposely want some of those angles between smoothing groups, I don't want most of them. As OTR pointed out a few pages back, they probably look better to most players smoothed off. I've noticed that smoothing them off invites another host of issues into the visuals, so I've gone to a midground on that issue, rounding many, but leaving important ones unrounded so that more flow can be had from tile to tile, while using the noise of the rest to hide where tiles actually start and end.


 


The Skyrim method uses a majority of partially transparent meshes with a single solid mesh under all that. I had been trying to figure out exactly how NWN2 accomplished similar, but had never taken the time to really get into the guts of the NWN2 maps. Now I can also see in Drakensang exactly how they duplicate the methods used in Skyrim. If I were to mimic that method, it would greatly increase the poly count of my models, perhaps even doubling it, and that is only if I take it easy and stay simply with two textures. Either way, if walkmesh grass is disabled, I think it would look far more spectacular than what I have now. It would also give me the opportunity to do the grass-rim meshes differently, as well as other rim-type meshes, including water edges. So I'd really like to give that a shot.


 


What I'll do is modify the in-progress-script which chooses a mesh family for faces at border terrain types, like those you can see make sharp triangles at the edge of cliffs in this set. What I had intended to so is have the script force those faces to choose one texture or another, without doing the random mixing along the edge. This would benefit the meshes by creating a hard texture seam along the edge. Originally I thought the opposite was much better, but now I have more options, and so don't actually need to hide the edge in low-tech ways.


 


What I'll then do is clone off anything to be textured with grass, instead of splitting it at the seam. I'll then extrude the outermost edge(s) and apply a texture with a transparent boundary. I'll then keep anything which was supposed to be rock texture, plus one more face over the rock-grass border. That extra face will stay tucked under the grass with the transparent edge. The underlying rock texture can remain a solid nontransparent texture. All other faces from the original mesh will be deleted to reduce duplication. That should only increase the face count by about 10-20% if I am guessing well at all, but should remove almost all hard texture transitions from the model. Really looking forward to trying that now that I understand it better from the Skyrim textures, and can see it in action in Drakensang.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #606 on: November 22, 2015, 01:47:57 am »


               

That sounds great MerricksDad I can't wait to see it when your done. '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #607 on: November 22, 2015, 02:58:20 pm »


               

Sorry I just seen that when I uploaded AOF Skyrim Textures I uploaded them as .dds Skyrim files. So I just did an update and uploaded them again as .tga files so they are now fully usable with NWN1.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #608 on: November 22, 2015, 03:04:45 pm »


               

No problem. I used GIMP to convert.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #609 on: December 06, 2015, 04:20:43 pm »


               

I've been trying to come to terms with the idea that I might not finish this, as much I want to, until maybe next summer. That kind of bums me out...well not just kind of bums me out, it really kills me. In the meantime, I've been working on a few smaller projects in what time I have had. I started asking for help in maxscript forums worldwide so I could figure out the quat math issues I've been having with the spellfire arm sheath. In the process, I figured out a way to use the wing node to possibly do other interesting wearable weapons. I don't really like using nodes with other specific purposes for such things though, as it requires that the wings of certain characters be placed on the main model, or the robe, and just creates more work.


 


In the process, I've come to the realization that if I had simply worked on the animation 100% manually, it would have been done by now, especially since I realized I was only going to be able to do combat cycles on the OC models. Maybe I should have a team of people as advisors who can calculate the potential hours for a project before I spend my life trying to train a robot to do that for me. '<img'>


 


While I wait for the needed help on the arm sheath, I'm examining the stream idea again, especially the corner to corner one. I'm really liking how it turns out when I make them by hand. The hard part is getting enough time to myself so I can teach the robot how to do the other 1000 tiles in the set. The holiday season seems to be the worst for such tasks.


 


The edge seam fixer looks to be working as well. Instead of fixing the edge as the tile is made, I went with an alternative where I can retroactively fix any of the premade tiles. This lets me also fix the separate stream tiles later without having to reconstruct the whole subset script again. It simply works hard to create a continuous line of texture from one edge to another depending on the tile. As planned, it leaves some of the grass patches mid-tile away from the primary seam.


 


In addition, I'm working on a script which does all the multi-texture blending I need to really make these tiles flow like I wanted. I've been spending more time in games like Drakensang, really looking hard at those tiles they use while my slow internet connection struggles to visualize all the mesh parts. I guess having a slow ass computer is somewhat beneficial at times.


 


I've also been really studying water features in a few games. If any of you played with the CCC package for wizard's tower last month, you will have found a sea water prototype I jammed in the corner of the room. Ultimately, that single mesh was supposed to blend animesh with envmapping, which I know some people can see. Since I cannot, it makes it really hard on my mind to continue working on that. Instead I'm taking an entirely more basic approach. Some future sea water tiles will include a minimum of 3 animated meshes.


 


The first mesh, the one you see in the wizards' tower, will have a sea foam appearance, but be otherwise mostly transparent. The underlying mesh will have the same physical animation, but the texture will slide instead of bunch and part. Together with a sea floor mesh, these two will portray clear water, like from the carribean. A fourth mesh placed at a specific depth can represent deepening darkness as you leave the shoreline, and will make use of two textures. The first is solid color and shares an opacity across the entire plane. The other is for use against the beach where it fades from that opacity to 100% transparency as it climbs the beach up and out of the water.


 


The third animated mesh is for objects like rocks which are under water. Drakensang uses a different method, which is actually a visual mistake in the calculation. Basically when a solid texture is behind a transparent one, it tends to modify the opacity of the above texture somehow. They left it because it looks good. NWN tends to paint underwater rock a different texture, but with an unmoving edge. With moving water, you need a moving texture edge to portray what is under water and what is above.


 


I sat yesterday for about 10 minutes at the edge of a river so I could get a feel for what is actually happening, and I've joined that with the math mistake in Drakensang to create a darkening texture which animates in the same wave pattern as the water meshes. Because it relies on the specific tile it is associated with, I could never use this on placeables. Basically it moves the darkening mesh in a way which matches the water level, changing the appearance of underwater rocks to look very realistically wet, and darkened by the water volume blocking the ambient light.


 


I don't yet know what kind of load a large area of this will put on the system, so I don't yet know if this will only be useful for small areas, or if it can be used for fantastic playable settings. That is something I should find out soon really.


 


I'm also collecting a set of placeable-like animated decals for use on river surfaces. Instead of making a very complex texture, I can simply modify a few patches here and there, making the river look turbulent or foamy in various places to denote it's direction of flow. This will come in handy when I install the 8m wide river tiles. These are specifically different from the corner to corner stream I'm still working on. In all, there will be 4 water features in the mountain set. You already have the prototype for shallow and deep water packed within the set. You'll also have the two non-crosser stream and river tiles. The 8m river will only naturally fall 1 height change without additional group features. That will keep the tile requirements for that specific tile type down to about 30 or less. I'll be able to cut them in the exact same way I am cutting the corner to corner streams, with only slight modification to the script.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_3RavensMore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1153
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #610 on: December 06, 2015, 08:07:47 pm »


               


I've been trying to come to terms with the idea that I might not finish this, as much I want to, until maybe next summer. That kind of bums me out...well not just kind of bums me out, it really kills me.




 


Don't sweat it MD.  Life happens, and we all do that with big projects.  If the process becomes a death march, it's not going to be fun anymore.  Take you time; I think everyone here will just be happy to have it, even if it takes more time--maybe even a lot more time--for it to be delivered into our eager paws.


 


Take care, and happy holidays. 


               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #611 on: December 09, 2015, 04:10:24 pm »


               

Nifty little video of the StreamCutter2 script in action, followed by the DoBuildMountains script. I cut out the delay time while mountain building processes. It seems to be taking longer today to do a single tile than ever before. Maybe I have too many other things running.


 


If you can't tell form the picture, this is tile 0111, not a flat tile. The stream flows down to the upper left corner from the bottom right corner. The script also does diagonal the other direction, as well as steeper elevation changes. The stream follows a stretched sin wave slope, instead of falling sharply, or at a perfect incline. This allows for better transition at the bottom and top tiles.


 


U0m6NpO.gif


 


The hard part is fully out of the way. I just need to work out a few bugs. One of those is that the down-right diagonal cut tinkers with the wrong corners and moves a few verts it should not. It took me most of the morning to detect why the slope was wrong, and that is the only part left I need to fix.


 


The edge cuts will be fairly simple to write. They require only a single cut, and I can leave out over half of the auto-fix steps because there is no extrusion, therefore no vertical faces, and no fudging numbers at corners.


 


You can see that the mountain builder fills the streams with walkable rock levels. This is random and can sometimes put a big ass rock right in the stream, fully blocking it off. If it happens at the very top or very bottom of the stream, there is a big vertical wall which looks really gimpy.


 


In the last few frames, you can see me playing with the water level. The script initially sets it to a level which represents what most streams in the black hills look like about 2 hours after a storm. If you ever see the black hills putting out as much water as in the last frame, you should leave the area, because you might not be living much longer. When the battle creek fills up, it rarely crests the bank. It did this spring though, just due to snow melt, and flooded many of the yards in the main path down through Keystone. One woman I talked to had said in her entire life of living there, she had never seen a year like that. She wasn't around during the reservoir break, so this would have been nothing in comparison.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #612 on: December 09, 2015, 04:34:47 pm »


               

I don't have anything to show for it yet, but I have also started putting together a small script kit based on recent mountain building functions I made this year. It basically grows a cave system in the same way as MineCraft, using voxels. It then smashes some of the voxels into smaller ones, removing a random quantity of the divisions which are not fully enclosed. Then it removes all the inward pointing faces, and shared faces, leaving only the outermost mesh walls, like a perfect hull system (just like I always wanted for my tree builder).


 


After that I plan to have it smooth and optimize and all that good stuff. So far, it accidentally makes tiny arches, and some weirdly stacked rock piles.


 


What I really want is a texture preserving optimize script. I just don't understand how to best play with tverts yet. My study of using normal vectors in texture application hasn't really given me what I need to fully automate the manual effects of ChiliSkinner, and I'm not sure that is really what I want anyway.


 


While playing with the tree builder again, I determined that I really need a way to just map all the textures based on cylindrical centers and vectors from that center. But I need to be able to do that on every branch section separately. The same would work for the voxels. The only alternative I see is to pre-texture all the cubes and branches, weld them together with a custom optimizing script, and hope for the best.


 


This is about all it can do right now.


http://i28.tinypic.com/vrykqu.png


 


What I want it to do is this.


http://i.imgur.com/0XjOs.png


 


But the requires a different approach to get the multi-level openings.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #613 on: December 09, 2015, 08:40:16 pm »


               

If I work on this further this year, I will probably try to include a bubble volume method, instead of systematic stacking and smashing. If I use volume, I can create a noise pattern in 3D which tells me where to put rock volume. I just need to make sure it doesn't leave parts hanging in mid-air... unless I want those. I might be able to physically drop chunks to the ground if they become separated, by detecting face centers on their hull, and then doing a collision test against floor mesh hull faces. I could even rotate the mass before dropping it.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0
Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #614 on: December 17, 2015, 12:47:54 am »


               

a9994bedc465a32845a71369dc2c30b6.jpg


 


So today, I finally received some advice on the spellfire arm sheath issue. It appears that I need to rotate on the local z-axis after I set the facing, or otherwise merge the 2-dimension vector to rotation with the original local z-axis rotation. Now I just gotta find out exactly at which point to do the combo, or how best to do it. I've found a few issues with my method, and now in trying to fix it and merge these new parts, I have screwed up one, two, or three sections of my bone-reversing code. It isn't back to scratch, or even nearly, but it feels like a job now. At least I understand a bit more about 3d rotation in vector defined coordinate systems. Still waiting to see if anybody has an exact fix for my code out there. That would just be spectacular if somebody else finished my work '<img'>


 


I should have put more work into finishing the stream tiles instead. I dreamt two nights ago about how to best pick and build the single corner stream varieties. At first I was going to omit them, or otherwise use streamless copies of normal tiles and just keep those as placeholders. But then I thought builders might actually want actual stream ends to just end on that tile. They'll look different than OC streams, so I didn't think they were important. I also never liked that without a group/feature tile. But then I thought about all the useful placeables that could cover the endpoint, and decided to just make them anyway.


Basically speaking, what I'm going to do with stream endpoints is only allow an endpoint on a tile which could also have a stream on the entire edge. So if a tile could have one edge with a stream, I need two varieties for stream ends on that same tile. Two edges means 3 end varieties. I'm not making tiles for three edge streams because this system has no room for parallel streams, or U-shapes on a hill. I will still do three edge streams on some flat tiles though. I don't have a figure for the additional tiles this will require, but it is probably quite a few given the +1 and +2 height transitions I am allowing streams to cover. I'm guessing more than double what the actual stream tiles were going to be. I think I listed that above in my testing phase.


I don't have a pic handy, but the smooth texture edge builder is working very easily. That was the simplest thing to make in a while. It also lets me make those easier transitions to modern texture application, like those in Skyrim and Drakensang, especially using round-texture decals, like OC rock piles, dirt patches, and grass splotches.


Now that the foliage is all down, I've also been out taking angle measurements on evergreens for my tree builder script. I hope to be putting that to use shortly when I decorate the newly textured base tiles.