Author Topic: Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)  (Read 12258 times)

Legacy_YeoldeFog

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #300 on: August 28, 2015, 03:22:07 pm »


               

Hurray for the surround edge-system!



               
               

               
            

Legacy_meaglyn

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #301 on: August 28, 2015, 06:29:41 pm »


               

That is cool! Nice hack MD.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #302 on: August 29, 2015, 02:44:04 am »


               

Man seeing the work some of you all have done and are doing really makes me want to learn how to make tiles. But dang I have just so much going on in real life. I guess I will have to wait till my kids are a lot older.


 


I used to love to build with legos as a kid and this game can somewhat be like that for adults '<img'>  



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #303 on: August 29, 2015, 04:22:17 am »


               

I build with this while my kid builds with legos '<img'>


 


Sometimes when I test something, I switch to a goat model and wander around the hills. He loves that. Especially if I get killed by something, or attack something as a goat.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #304 on: August 29, 2015, 05:11:00 am »


               

Nice 


 


My wife and I have 5 kids, I coach full contact football with my oldest and flag with my younger two boys, oh and my two girls are in cheerleading. Next will come basketball, wrestling, and spring soccer. I love playing around with NWN, but I'm really enjoying coaching, playing, and watching my kids with the sports they are in. So you can see where most of my free times goes.


 


I try to learn what I can when I can with NWN and will still try. However the only time I really get to work on it is once everyone is a sleep, which means I choose to lose sleep in order to play around with NWN '<img'> . That said, it looks like it will take a lot of time to learn how to build tilesets the way you and Zwerkules can/do. So I thought for now I will work on reskining/retexturing a few more tilesets and slowly over time learn how to do more.


 


But thanks for what you are doing. I really do like your work and can't wait to be able to use everything you have showed us here to build/make modules.  



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #305 on: August 29, 2015, 03:23:35 pm »


               

Spent some time last night making sure I have the feel right, height wise. I decided to keep the mountain terrain at 9m height. The rest I tried at 3m, but decided to keep them at 1.5m. It just looks better and plays better, and leaves much less eyesore when you come up to a dirt cliff. I also worked out a set of 4 textures to be used as grass. They are a sick bat **** color of green gray with patches of full gray and darker green. When the cutting crosser for making 8m wide ravines is complete, the wetter areas within those will be very emerald green. The slope of the dirt cliff is now a very low saturation rust brown, so as to blend wonderfully with the dead pine needles from the forest crossers. Both pine and spruce crossers will come with the same ground cover for ease of creation. I've also picked out a few textures for use where rocks have fallen in piles from the older mountain tiles. Two of the three textures I am using for the schist placeables are also ready, but the top face is giving me fits. I've decided that the top face simply needs to be high poly instead of using darker textures. Perhaps a mix of the two, like I did with the granite, will do the trick.


 


Today, I'd like to finish the third alternate set of granite cliffs (mountain terrain). This one is comprised of deep cutting vertical lines. The further from the upper half of the tile the cut is, the more slanted away from the top half the separated stone layer becomes. Broken chunk placeables will lay below. There is an area in the eastern hills near Keystone SD which has this same pattern in schists, but I don't think I will bother doing that. It is basically the same color, just the debris looks entirely different, like discarded piles of office paper made of stone.


 


I'm studying the range of placeable boulders I will need to complete this set and it looks like we're going from foot across rocks up to 3m boulders commonly. I'd also like to make stand-alone tiles or placeables nearly the size of a tile, for those granite pillars separated from the main dome.


 


But first... playing around with the third alternate mountain terrain. This one is not fully combinable with the other two, and I don't intend on making it so. But, you can probably fake it with the placeables when they are done, quite easily. Right now all three types come up on "mountain" terrain placement. You just need to cycle through them to get one you like that fits.


 


6AM sunrise falls on the vertical sheets of granite at the granitelands core:


KzK1qL6.png



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #306 on: August 31, 2015, 01:44:07 am »


               

This morning I worked on the chasm, which for now, is just stretched out and realigned texture versions of one of the mountain sets. It goes from 0 to -2500 height right now, but my intent is to move it to the region of mountain (900) as a base, not grass. It doesn't do me much good from the grass level when I want to portray a mountain cliff.


 


I also worked with the mountain raise/lower to make sure I could start at 900 and still go up and down 150. It does work as expected, so there is a whole set of +1 for mountains now, both soft and angular, as well as combinations of those. The only difference between mountain and grass raise/lower is the texture. Mountain is fully granite, while the grass is that glaucus mixture with the occasional debris beside the cliff browns.


 


The chasm looks pretty good as is, and with my fog falloff values I can see the bottom pretty good from up top. The mountain+/- also looks as expected, and will make a great region to put in some on-tile or placeable dead or stunted pines. Being in the namespace of "mountain" the +1 still accepts the mountain peak terrain type, so you can insert those any time you want to cap it.


 


The only drawback so far is that you cannot create two levels of +900 terrain change, unless you use the mountain, then use the mountain peak. I don't have any walkable are planned for the mountain peak, as they are spires type formations, not flat-tops.


 


The only other raised terrain I intend to offer is also unwalkable, and that is the curtain wall made of the even higher peaks, for the "surround" terrain.


 


I did a few hours of soft study on two stream variants. One will basically be paintable as a shallow crosser, and might not actually have any depth. This will represent a rain flow channel down the nearest slope. Basically it will create a tiny debris stream in the walk way. The other type will be a 8m wide channel of varying depths, but will mostly keep in the walkable depth range. The majority of the channel will be empty, and the depression it carves out will be littered with rocks of the type of terrain it cuts though. The water will be very shallow in most places, which will help me immensely with the texture.


 


Another use for the deeper mountain stream is as a ramp over 2 or more tiles to reach the +900 elevation mountain terrain from the 0 level grass terrain. Being that my raise/lower feature is only going in increments of 150, that would otherwise take 6 tiles to cross to reach that level normally, so the ramps I create to get to the 900 will either have to be steep steps going up the cliff face, or a two or more tile group with a less steep slope. I found the perfect stream steps in the Keystone area about a mile from town where two streams flow down from the mountains after heavy rain. At the bottom of many of the steps, there is a cut-out filled with deeper water, and often laden with gemmy garnets and staurolite. Schist and limestone chunks often make the perfect stepping stones all the way up, and make the climb not very difficult at all.


 


The stream for the high plains set will be like the one many pages back on this thread. It will remain about 8m across at the widest point, with a near constant depth, and should be walkable in most places.


 


I'm now picking out textures for stream bottoms, as the water is already picked a while back, and just needs to be recolored.


 


It may take me some time to complete the mountain conversion of the 8m stream, but that won't be a problem later. What I want to do now is take a long boring day and flesh out the forest crossers. That basically requires me to clone a bunch of tiles and just put the trees on them, and then feed the set builder file the details. Hopefully I can spend less time and then automate that, being that the set file is just INI format. We'll see. Sometimes automation requires me to work longer than actually just typing it in...



               
               

               
            

Legacy_3RavensMore

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #307 on: August 31, 2015, 02:25:04 am »


               

Really looking forward to seeing this set released.  From your progress reports and images it already looks and sounds like one of the best. 



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #308 on: September 01, 2015, 10:01:43 pm »


               

I'm trying to get the toolset to respond to multiple elevation changes over a single tile, but as before I cannot seem to force it. Has anybody had luck?


 


What I did before was edit the area file with the gff editor and adjust my heights as needed.


 


With the minis tileset I was working on, I don't leave the individual terrain as parts like you'd expect. Instead, I put the contents of 4 normal sized tiles into that packed tile area, then I make groups to be placed like rooms. I treat even the exterior zones as interior in that respect. If you can imagine a pen and paper game using terrain tiles, then you can do the same with the toolset.


 


So what I wanted to do is portray a 1, 2, or 3 elevation change within the same tile, on just one tile. I can't seem to do that with the set editor, as it only accepts +1 height changes. I can alter the file myself, but I don't know how to use the rules feature very well, so I cannot make the +2 elevation change fire for the locally adjusted tiles. Anybody got that working?


 


I was thinking that since this doesn't work the way I want it to, I might just release the basic few tile types without the ability to move from level 0 to the mountain region without special groups. I had intended to make a few of these groups anyway, but it seems like I am confined to a lower range of them in this toolset.


 


I would really like to make a new toolset, but I'm no good with the graphics programming, so I couldn't display a 3D view, just a 2D view using the map icons. If I could somehow get the code for the toolset, I could change the two aspects I normally do by hand with the gff editor.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #309 on: September 02, 2015, 03:34:15 pm »


               

I seem to have stumbled across a way to represent 2 or more height changes within the toolset with only one additional terrain type. If I have a height change of 3M and I have another terrain type of 6M, and I want to combine them, normally I cannot have anything but corners representative of those individual terrain types. I cannot also transition from the 0M or 3M terrain to the 6M terrain without a special tile, even though the transition from 3M to 6M is just another +1 height transition. You simply cannot do two height transitions on a single tile from inside the toolset. With gff editor, you can do this all you want, as long as you know how to poke at the data.


 


So I was thinking that I needed a way to shift from +1 at 3M to the 6M other terrain. Shift.... what do you do before you shift in older cars? You apply a neutral setting to the gears. So what I needed was a neutral type of terrain.


 


Within this neutral type of terrain, I can pack duplicates of other tiles which share a height. Then by designating a corner of the tile as Neutral, I can stitch together the +1 height transition and the 2 unit height other terrain.


 


Because the Neutral terrain is double packed (or more) that gives a base of 2 tiles that could spawn at the intersection, so without further alternative tiles for that intersection, worst case scenario in the toolset is that I have to hit erase once or twice to get the tile to switch to the other.


 


So with this Neutral corner, I can now portray a tile which is top left to bottom right: grass, mountain, chasm, grass +1, and then place that adjacent to a tile which is grass+1, mountain +1, grass, grass +1. Below is an illustration.

A07fAe5.png


 


In the toolset, the 0 and the adjacent +1 listed in green represent the proper acceptable height transition mechanism in the toolset. The M and +1 listed in red are not a matching height transition, because you cannot match a height transition of one terrain to a different type of terrain. So basically, you cannot do this in the toolset.


 


qxGqfqq.png


 


The second image shows the same tiles but with the trouble corners set to a third terrain type, Neutral. This allows the tiles to properly match up with applying a height transition to the other corner.


 


Neutral +1 can either be specifically defined, it could clone the set from Neutral 0, or it could be omitted, disallowing either corner from using any height transition.


 


I picked this up after trying to make some of the tile combinations in Torchlight 2, where they transition 2 and 3 tile heights together easily. While their map maker is very different from NWN, the basic concept of the tiled area is the same, so I figured there must be some way to pull it off in NWN.


 


Now I can easily transition two heights at once, but in the current iteration of my tileset, the mountains are actually more than 2 transitions high. I had originally gone with 900 for mountains and 150 for grass raise, which left me with 6 transitions to reach the higher level. I might as well do that with an area transition to a higher place, or via doors, like a cave or something, but I wanted to be able to actually trek up the mountain.


 


So then I changed the mountain height to 600, while setting the normal height transition to 200. I could reach the top of a mountain section in only three transitions, but still I couldn't do that in the tileset.


 


In TL2, they have alternate mountain edges, which show 2 or 3 transitions as tight unwalkable steps on the height transition. The character to tile size ratio of NWN is slightly different, so I would like a walkable ledge, much like they have in Dungeon Siege 1. I figure I can now do that with these Neutral corners, and a crosser called ledges or steppes. I can either portray one lower ledge, one higher ledge, or both ledges using the same crosser used against the neutral corner. This opens up a large array of cave, bridge, and mountain pass options for the tileset. It also completes the needs I had for the underdark tilesets!



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #310 on: September 04, 2015, 02:22:43 pm »


               

Taking the last few, and the weekend coming up, completely off NWN. I need uninterrupted time to do what I need to do to complete this set, and I don't currently have that. My boy goes back to school tuesday, and I suspect by wednesday, I can dive in and clone up a bunch of tiles and get really deep into finishing. I'm so close I can feel it.


 


I also figured out a way, hopefully, to fix the badlands set so I can have the entire 4 depths of badlands represented in the tileset without height issues.


 


I noticed in the Coniferous Mountain Forest tileset, that the base tiles are not started at Z=0. The bases are, of course, but the mesh is set quite a bit higher, as though this problem has come up before. To refresh the memory of any following that issue, the problem seems to start with multiple levels of negative height on the walkmesh, from tile to tile. It isn't so much at a tile transition, as a very specific z value. Suddenly the error pops and your character moves to a very high Z value. I personally encounter the issue starting in the 3k range, if I recall correctly. It may be closer to 2k. So what I think I will do is make it so even the lowest depth of the walkable mesh is set higher than 3k depth. This may mean making the terrain types slightly less steep, but also changing the base 0-level of the grass terrain by adding what looks like wasted height to the base plane. We'll see if that works, and I think it will.


 


This will come in handy for the deep cavern areas in the three underdark sets coming up next. I am starting to itch over those sets so much that I might completely skip the limestone canyon tileset from the black hills and come back to it later. All the parts and techniques are coming together for the cave series in such a rush that I am feeling very antsy about moving on. I've even downloaded gigabytes of texture and terrain sketches, as well as inspirational images from other games.


 


But first, Wednesday, I will be working on putting the final touches on the height changes, including those multiple height changes per tile using that neutral terrain corner. This should be really fun to work with, and with only minimal annoyance in the toolset. This is a huge benefit over having to GFF edit all your areas, or use only named tile placement, where you simply name every single odd tile you would ever need, and place them individually, much like putting a puzzle together. I assure you, that is very annoying without a physical catalog with pictures.


 


After that, I'll be finishing up the rocks and trees placeables. I will add the water features and cave entrances last. I'll release other tile improvements at a later date, including mine heads and humanoid constructed areas.


 


I'll then release the Granite lands set, and quickly finish the High Plains set, including the four badlands regions, and its regional placeables.


 


I really do think I will skip the Limestone Canyon set, and move directly to the Karst Caves set. It may be a simple matter of cloning and redecorating the Karst caves for the other two sets at that point, as they will have the same tiles, just at different elevations. Then I can return to the Limestone Canyon.


 


It should be 6 good sets in only a year of nearly nonstop work. Not including the work I already put into figuring out the bugs since 2008...



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #311 on: September 08, 2015, 01:32:03 am »


               

Starting tomorrow, I need to make dummy tiles, or placeholders, for all the tiles I intend to make for this set, this way I can get the SET file out of the way and not mess with it anymore until I need to add groups and features.


 


Is anybody interested in having a "blanks" copy of a tileset with two interchangeable height elevations, chasms, streams, water, a wall type, and mountains, all without any textures applied, or any major shaping on rises? This would only be useful if you wanted to portray an entirely white world with a blocky tileset, or for using as a basis for your own tileset with all the options already spelled out. White tiles would indicate tiles you still needed to make in your own set, so you could see your progress basically in real time.


 


I've always thought it would be interesting to have such a thing. So if you want one, speak up, and also let me know if you have any requests for such a blank tileset.


 


Basically what I will be doing is scriptually creating a three height terrain with all the needed tiles for mixing those three (0, +1, and +2 on the same tile), and then adding the boxwork for the mentioned most common crosser types, and then having a separate script force them all into the required SET file. It could be a great learning tool, and would basically show you all those too damn many tile combinations you need that I talked about in my basic tileset tutorial (which I assume scared the crap out of people).



               
               

               
            

Legacy_T0r0

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #312 on: September 08, 2015, 02:49:08 am »


               

*holds up hand* That would be an excellent learning tool !!!



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #313 on: September 08, 2015, 03:23:29 am »


               

I'm thinking to name all the blanks tiles with a tmd05_##### setup, where the numbers are just a five digit index. Then I will make up a big texture with the entire number range as text on the texture. Then apply that portion of the texture to the whole face of the blank tile, so when you are looking at it in the toolset, you can see what tile you are looking at by name/number and simply load that one up in nwMax. Or maybe I will just do 0-9 and make 5 digits out of small planes floating over the model which can be easily erased or something. Maybe put them on a same-named dummy in each tile so you can kill them externally with a script. Something easy like that.


You guys ever wanted a white room with a weapon rack full of guns, like in the matrix, except for NWN with a stash of loot of all kinds ? hahaha "The loading program". Maybe like a weapon rack closet with each rack having a set of the OC content items on it, so you could easily just go to the rack program and pick out ANY known weapon without having to script it to your character by name.


 


 


mad_hatter_by_dancinmegs.png



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Merricksdad's Black Hills Tileset (First Look)
« Reply #314 on: September 10, 2015, 02:04:23 am »


               

So two days of "other" work shooting down my moving forward with this, however I have been perfecting the jiggle on the danglymesh grass alternatives and this happens:


 


My wife walks over while I am mod testing the new grass, which I placed into clumps in three sections on the high plains tileset, at highest wind. They jiggle a bit too much. I say "they're wrong. too jiggly". She says "My god, it's like a whole gopher village is fornicating under those plants."