Custom Content Challenge: February 2014: Gothic

[Legacy_KlatchainCoffee]

               Lots of very good stuff this month!  I can only add that I have a slight hope to make a contribution as well. Not going to say what yet, other than it will be a fairly humble offering, considering my skill level.

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[Legacy_Bluebomber4evr]

               OMG Shemsu! You're the man!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TiZeta]

               Hi, I think some issues on my models, goth male and female, need clarification.
First, he packages on OpenGameArt, uploaded by another person, with my permission and kindly asking, is outdated.
It's been a while, five years ago, I didn't even remember.
I don't know if the admins will decide to remove it or to replace it with the newer one. However, the "problem" persists.
You should be aware of the fact the law protects the so-called "moral rights" on the artworks.
Those right are granted and cannot even be waived by the autor.
You can see what it means here for example:
http://www.artslaw.c...e-moral-rights/
And here:
http://www.ipo.gov.u...moralrights.htm
So I really don't understand where the problem is.

Summary, from the artslaw site linked above:

   - Moral rights are about keeping the connection between you and your work.
   - You have moral rights in relation to the work you create.
   - You have the right to be recognised, or named, as the creator of your work.
   - No one should do anything to your work that hurts your reputation.
   - You cannot give away your moral rights. They are for you only.
   - Moral rights last for your lifetime and up to 70 years after your death.
   - If someone does not show your name with your work, or treats your work in a way that hurts your reputation, this is called a moral rights infringement.

If you think the artists moral rights are wrong for this website, I'm afraid you will have to create all of your artwork by yourself.
Because even if the author does'nt give you a hint on what he/she considers lesive of reputation, you can still be sued.
Not by me, probably. I don't give a f***. But from anyone that releases artwork for free.

That's it.

Tiziana
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TiZeta]

               And of course, you can use the models, and I'm glad you do it. If in doubt on what can/cannot be done, just ask '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               

TiZeta wrote...

And of course, you can use the models, and I'm glad you do it. If in doubt on what can/cannot be done, just ask '>

I'm very sorry it has come to this, as we really don't want to reopen arguments that have damaged this community in the past.

The CC-BY license is normally a clear sign that we can adapt and distribute the work, as long as we credit the author and don't suggest that they endorse what we have done. For many authors, that's sufficient protection of their reputation.

However, when an author qualifies the license, it should warn us that they are not entirely comfortable with the open spirit of Creative Commons.

Before I contributed to the Custom Content Challenge, I asked one of the organisers to confirm that it is about open source content. That's the only reason I'm involved; if that's wrong, tell me, and I will bow out.

If the Challenge is truly open (implying that the author will never seek to censor, damage, or harass the creators of derivative works, or require them to seek permission), I believe that it was an honest mistake to use TiZeta's material here. I mean no disrespect to Shemsu-Heru, an outstanding community member whose work is of the very highest standard, but perhaps it would be better to publish these particular models independently, or as part of a project that welcomes restricted content.

I respect those community members who feel that we should remain silent on these matters, to keep the peace, but, in my humble opinion, protecting the reputation of Creative Commons as a trusted brand is of paramount importance.

Everyone understands that some authors want to control how their work is used, but if this is an open project, I honestly believe that discussion belongs in another thread.

Suffice it to say that TiZeta is free to do whatever she likes, and that I, for my part, give my word of honour never to use her work in any shape or form.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TiZeta]

               You are exaggerating Proleric. Also, the two models are the only ones that have that note on them.
All the others that I realeased later that don't have it. On blendswap, for example. And, since you don't read what i write, repetitia juvant (well, maybe..)
I released the newer models without restrictions because no matter what I write or say, they are still there. Those restrictions, I mean. They are there for my works, they are there for every other artist work. So for what you are saying, you should not use nobody's else work.
But the worst part is that you are trying to force others (ex. Shemsu Heru) to do what you say.
Very open spirit, man.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TiZeta]

               And also, you are continuing to mistake censorship, damage or harass for defence. The only "action" that I could take, in case, is dissociate from the neo-****-omophobic party using my image as a mascotte, and asking to stop doing it. And relax, I have no money and intention to sue anyone.
Relax man.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TiZeta]

               and for the skepticals, just read Creative Commons Licence more carefully
http://wiki.creative...2C_if_at_all.3F
My package is now updated on OpenGameArt, no notes anymore, but don't exult Proleric. My rights are still there. The only difference is that I give no hints on what I consider to be against my reputation. You managed to censorship me, man!!! Kudos.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shemsu-Heru]

               @TiZeta: Thanks for your clarifications, It's very kind of you to explain those questions here.

I would never want to create a conflict of interest. I have download the models from a free website, and also have asked to the author, to avoid any misunderstood.

However if organizers of the challenge, consider that those creatures are inadequate, for the challenge; Please let my know. I don't have any problem with published those, out of the challenge.

I have been adding custom content to NWN, for several years. And a great part of my content is completely original; However another important part of it is derived work from other people. Until now I haven seen any wrong, in use models, whose authors have allowed free use for them....
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shemsu-Heru, 17 février 2014 - 04:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_KlatchainCoffee]

               @TiZeta

In short, what you said sounded like this: 'You should know that if you use any stuff that's not completely your own, you could be sued.'

Perhaps you did not mean to make it sound quite the way it does. At one point I was into creating 2D art which some people thought good enough to want to use in what they were doing. Some of the nicer ones contacted me and asked permission. Many didn't, but still gave credit. Some others did neither.

To be honest, I am generally fine with this. Might be less fine if someone tried to make money out of my stuff, but that bears zero relation to anything produced in places like this.

I think various perspectives have been voiced and, to avoid derailing this thread, any further discussion (if it must) should happen in a different thread. Please.

*returns to artistic wax dribbling in gmax*
               
               

               

                     Modifié par KlatchainCoffee, 17 février 2014 - 04:24 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_rjshae]

               

KlatchainCoffee wrote...

In short, what you said sounded like this: 'You should know that if you use any stuff that's not completely your own, you could be sued.'

Unless you have really deep pockets or deliberately set out to damage somebody's reputation, it seems pretty unlikely that you would be sued; hiring a lawyer for friovlous purposes is way too expensive for most folks. If using a work is generally allowed and you are not using it for commercial purposes, I'd say just be respectful and give credit where it is due.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               And of course this opens the can of worms with different countries (and communities thereof e.g. the E.U.) having different laws. Here in the UK we (being part of the EU) have copyright laws which do not include that moral right enshrined in law (AFAIK).

TR
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               @Shemsu-Heru : In case there's any misunderstanding, I have absolutely no issue with using other people's licensed work, giving credit (whether requested or not) and respecting terms such as non-commercial and share alike. I actively encourage all of that. Your excellent contribution to NWN speaks for itself, so I certainly wouldn't want to hurt your feelings. If I did so, I apologise.

As you know, authors who license work under Creative Commons are normally the last people on earth who would ever give us any trouble; it's a badge of trust.

Really, the practical concern is not a legal one. I have over 2000 custom components in my module (not including CEP or tilesets). I need to feel confident that I don't have to waste time on usage permissions, and that the risk of dispute or content ripping is low to nil. Like many other writers, I do stuff that's edgy, crossing boundaries that some people don't like.

I don't believe I'm forcing anyone to do anything here, but, just as a free society doesn't allow anti-social behaviour, there's no contradiction when an an open project declines restricted or risky content. Whether that is the case here is not for me to say, of course.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Proleric1, 17 février 2014 - 06:20 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shemsu-Heru]

               @Proleric1:

You have hurt nothing. I only would like to Know if the creatures that I have made from TiZeta models should be added here or not.

If I have made this is because I think that this use wasn't against TiZeta's conditions. Of course TiZeta have the last work about this. However I think that any module which includes some of this creatures, even if they are used as villains and as a consequence they do unethical things, Don't means that the module is encouraging to imitate  that behavior, because they are villains and  villains do villainies. So I understand that won't be against TiZeta's license.

Having saying that; I understand your point of view, and if organizers considered that they are not adequate content for the challenge, I don't have any problem removing those creatures.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shemsu-Heru, 17 février 2014 - 07:10 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tiberius_Morguhn]

               

Shemsu-Heru wrote...

@henesua: Unfortunately I'm not good with VFX.

Man, that is awesome.  I would like to request an additional version that is not so lime green in color.  A darker green with some black fringing would be nice for a rougher look.  But don't get me wrong, I'll gladly take this as is!  Thank you for the awesome work!!!!