Fomenting Mutiny

[Legacy_MerricksDad]

               Do we have a dead horse model yet?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_T0r0]

               3 pages + in less than 24 hrs definitely demonstrates that everyone has your back TAD. All fancy words aside/approaches aside, a simple (not so simple) manner to improve current cep would be a good start.
So instead of mutiny, what do you call it when a dragon comes along and takes your hoard ! =)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MerricksDad]

               

henesua wrote...
Merick, we need to talk. I was just discussing such a translator with team members.

again, agreed. Thankfully the time when such a program would be needed is likely months away. I plan to continue working on the libraries, or actually the merging of them. I already have a custom GFF editor for when I rebuilt infinity engine from scratch with improvements, so likely I already have that code and just need to bring it up to date. If not, the file specifications are easily available on the vault still.

The TLK structure has already been built in VB2008 and functions like an excel doc with col and row calls. The 2DA library was actually the easiest, especially since file specifications were readily available.

Combine that with all the tileset modding I did in 2006 and adding a SET library would be super simple. I was going to do interface, but what need would we have of an interface when we're just handing it a to-do list.

So basically, its just steps away from being finished. Make CEP3 reality and this could make things super simple.

Once I get a little further along, I'll put this out there as open source for the community and people can convert it to C or something easier to code in and reuse with other languages. Actually I had even started making some JSON libraries to run 2da data, trying to see it it was faster that way, via greasemonkey or something client side.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MerricksDad]

               

T0r0 wrote...
So instead of mutiny, what do you call it when a dragon comes along and takes your hoard ! =)

I think we can simply call it "Progress", at least for the allies and underlings of said dragon.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

henesua wrote...

Disagree, Pstemarie, interoperability is the key. CEP 3 can thus be compatible with CEP 2, without requiring it to be fully backwards compatible. This means that it need not be an all or nothing approach but instead users can pick and choose what they use of it.

Each module of CEP 3 in this case would be designed to be self contained and sit on top of CEP 2.

Actually, we do agree. I just have the flu and can't articulate right now. YES, make CEP3 self contained and have it sit on top of CEP2. That's basically what I was getting at - DO NOT muck with the CEP2 haks (don't remove stuff from them, don't change their names, etc.). Any changes you make should be contained in the CEP3 arcitechture.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 14 janvier 2014 - 05:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               

MerricksDad wrote...

Do we have a dead horse model yet?

I think both CEP and Project Q already have one...and you can ride it. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

The Amethyst Dragon wrote...

MerricksDad wrote...

Do we have a dead horse model yet?

I think both CEP and Project Q already have one...and you can ride it. '>

Yes, the undead horse in CEP is a pre-release version of the undead horse Six and I made for Q and does not contain the final fixes made before it was officially released as part of Q. I have no idea how it got into CEP, but it needs to be replaced with the models from the Q haks.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_3RavensMore]

               Is it done yet?  '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_meaglyn]

               

MerricksDad wrote...

Once I get a little further along, I'll put this out there as open source for the community and people can convert it to C or something easier to code in and reuse with other languages. Actually I had even started making some JSON libraries to run 2da data, trying to see it it was faster that way, via greasemonkey or something client side.

Cool. it sounds useful. I was hoping it wasn't Windows only. But it still sounds good.

Elven's ruby tools for gff conversion are very useful for changing things like pc part numbers,
apparances etc, using the filter mechanism. I've used it a lot when merging CEP and Q.

prwo has a neat tool called hakasm  which merges haks from a sort of build file. It's very good a
renumbering PC part modles and such.

Fwiw,  I think the whole CEP thing could be tracked in something like git. Maybe the textures themselves etc
might be in their own archive.  Anything text or easily converted to and from text. Then have some sort of build system so that making the haks in different forms is just essentailly pushing a button (and waiting a while...).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I like how you think, Meaglyn. I second your proposals.

But I do want to point out that you don't need fancy tools for moving models around: simply using command line tools like find and sed and find and rename are all you need (once the MDLs are decompiled).

I love regular expressions. '>

Pstemarie, glad we are on the same page. When I talk about a modular approach, self-contained and interoperable is what I mean. I particularly dislike the all or nothing approach of CEP 2.

T0r0 wrote...
So instead of mutiny, what do you call it when a dragon comes along and takes your hoard ! =)

Priceless...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 14 janvier 2014 - 05:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Killmonger]

               Wow.
Way to respond guise & grrls!
The journey of a thousand steps has begun.
I am in awe of the technical potential that resides here for Nwn improvements.
Automation of the relevant merger elements would make this project possible sooner than later...
Thanks MerricksDad
Clearly this mutiny has some momentum !

I agree with much of the above. Without changing the (working) CEP24 files some overrides should be examined. Most important is a calculated and transparent approach before any changes (read improvements). It would be good to see the detailed problems of this campaign examined in side threads (aka clothes, phenos, scripts, wishlist etc).

Let us not needlessly duplicate our efforts internally. Those with the skills should be warming up their Gimp/Photoshop/3dMax and workflow process. Those inclined may also wish to consider the new knowledge about multiple plt, tga, and txi files. Beware of the "burn out" factor ! Educate first.
It is our community and it's obvious that a lot of heartfelt joy (and real work) goes with it
Thanks to AD for setting up the first tentative wiki to address this.

A New Hope <sigh>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_meaglyn]

               

henesua wrote...

I like how you think, Meaglyn. I second your proposals.

But I do want to point out that you don't need fancy tools for moving models around: simply using command line tools like find and sed and find and rename are all you need (once the MDLs are decompiled).

I love regular expressions. '>

True. I do all my work on linux with mostly command line tools, plus wine for the toolset itself.

That was mostly just an example and (non) pointer to something useful. It does a bit more at once, but comes at a price - only runs on windows. I used it once to remap all the ACAG parts to holes in the CEP 2das to keep from breaking all the existing armor and clothing. Worked well for that.

Btw where is this "team" you mentioned ealrier?  I'm not seeing a lot of discussion yet on the wiki page...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               The team I was talking about earlier is the Vives team. Someone joined us from another project and is interested in reusing their work. A translation tool would be useful in converting areas built with one set of content, to work with a different set of content. If by "wiki" you were referring to the Vives WIKI, we have a private wiki behind the scenes. Our public blog is a very limited thing that any one can view.

If you meant the CEP team. I think we're just getting started. I didn't mean to name myself as a team member here though. I don't know how much I can commit. But I will do what I can. I would like to tackle moving all non-essential content (optional overrides etc...) into a CEP team managed facelift for NWN. We should get Zwerk on board with that too.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_meaglyn]

               

henesua wrote...

If you meant the CEP team. I think we're just getting started. I didn't mean to name myself as a team member here though. I don't know how much I can commit. But I will do what I can. I would like to tackle moving all non-essential content (optional overrides etc...) into a CEP team managed facelift for NWN. We should get Zwerk on board with that too.

Ahh, that makes more sense.. I thought it was early to be talking about a team having being formed here already. Thought maybe I missed something '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               sorry. i'll try not to speak so casually from here on out. might help with eliminating the confusion above that probably wouldn't have happened if i had clarified the difference between a interoperable setup which is compatible if the user desires it versus a setup that is fully backwards compatible.