Dark Sun Ideas/Images/Inspiration for December 2013 Challenge

[Legacy_Shemsu-Heru]

               Some reflexions about clases (Open discussion):

Some classes were forbidden in the 2nd E for DS. I don't know well what classes are available in the 4th E. But in the 3rd E articles in Dragon magazine all basic 3e classes are available; However I think that some classes should be forbidden in 3rd E as well

Paladin:
Was forbidden in 2nd E; But in 3E DM it's available, even when they say that they are extremely rare. I think that this class should remain forbidden; First of all because there is no gods in Athas; It's too hard for me to acept a Paladin without a god, even more than a cleric without one. Because clerics worship any kind of gods that incarnate very different phylosophies and nature powers. But paladins only worship gods that incarnate lawful and good or neutral sometimes, and there is any power in Athas that incarnate those things. Also sense of justice, honor, rightness, etc, are irrelevant concepts in Athas where only matters surviving; And characters need to be adaptive, but a paladin is not.

Standard clerics are replaced by elemental clerics, which I have spoken above about them. 
Templars are other kind of clerics, But because of their close hierarchy, there is not too much chances for a playable character, to become in one.

Standard wizards are replaced by defilers and preservers. Made that magic affects to living things could be too hard, but i have some ideas of how this classes could be added to NWN:

Both would be based on the standard wizard. but defilers should be available only for evil or neutral characters, and preservers for good or neutral.It's say that the way of the preserver is more slowly, but they become more powerful with time. So preservers could need more experience for level up, but they would have more spells per level as a reward. While defilers would need less XP for level up, but they would obtain less  spells per level. Also some restrictions about spells or magic schools, would be needed. For example necromancy should be available only for defilers.....


Sorcerer is available in 3E DM, even when they consider it extremely rare. I think that this class should be forbidden in Athas. Because, sorcerers are supposed to have their innate powers, Thanks to be a descendant of a powerfull magic creature like a dragon for example. Well, there is any magical creatures in Athas, they have psionic powers instead; And the only dragon, as well as the dragon kings, don't have interest in create spawns...


Fighters and gladiators, used to be different classes in the 2nd E. But in the 3rd E, gladiator is no more consider a class. Actually I coincide with this point, after all a gladiator is just another kind of fighter. and considering the great number of skills and feats, that a character have in the 3rd E, one can personalize a lot their style.

The rest of the classes work more or less like in other campaigns:

Note about monks: as it is say in 3rd E DM. Athasian monks don't learn their skills in a monastery; Instead the learn it from one master to their pupil. One expection could be the Villichi who live in a monastic sisterhood...

Psionics and wild psionics, Are basic classes in the Dark sun campaign.



About Prestige classes:

PC from Forgotten Realms, like purple dragon knight or harper scout. Are clearly inappropriate in dark Sun.

Also problably most of the "Divine" PC, like Divine Champion  (aka champion of Torn in NWN). Should be forbidden as well; Because of the lack of gods in Athas.

Even some Arcane PC classes, probably have to be deleted too, like "Arcane archer", or would need a great modification. Howeaver other arcane PC could fit well in Athas. For example pale master, could be a great PC for a defilers, but it should be forbidden for preservers.

The ability of the black guard to summon fiends, would make it inappropriate in Athas. If this PC is going to be use in Dark Sun; It would need to remove the summon fiends spells, and or replace that with elementals or any other 
creatures suitable in Athas.

Shadow Dancer, can be understood like a PC for characters with an special affinity with "The black". And it don't need any change in my opinion.

Assassin. Well, they exists in any world; Howeaver perhaps in Athas their "magical" abilities should be revised, or maybe not I'm not sure.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shemsu-Heru, 26 novembre 2013 - 11:54 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               

Draygoth28 wrote...

Is there a list of who's doing what so far?

Not yet, since the month's theme/challenge doesn't start until Dec. 1st (I'll start up a regular CCC thread at that time).  Shemsu-Heru is just posting background information and images from PnP D&D sources (which keeps the regular thread loading faster for discussing/showing actual works being made).

If I recall correctly, there was a lot of Brom art used for officially published materials.





Class Discussion:

I think you're right about paladins, champions of torm, and harper scouts.

I would keep pretty much everything the same for defilers and preservers, and use the wizard class.  You could use alignment as the decider on which type of arcane magic they are using.  Perhaps have LG, NG, and CG as perserver magic (they thoughfully use magic in a way to preserve things for others...aka "being good") and LN, N, CN, LE, NE, and CE as defiler magic. 

You could make both types of magic work the same in most environments, but in "desert" evironments where there isn't much life (desert and frozen waste tileselts, perhaps in mines/caverns) have defiling magic cause damage to other creatures within a radius (bigger radius for higher level spells).  Spell hooking would be needed.

You could use NWNX2 and nwnx_funcs at level up time to enforce picking spells of specific schools (by swapping in/out spells after level up, or forcing a PC to redo that level if they have the wrong type of spells known).

For psionicists, use the sorcerer class (perhaps just rename it and redo the description).  Have them pick spells that would fit a psionicist...enchantments, ability/item enhancing spells, etc. rather than fireball and horrid wilting. The stuff you'd think of as "hey, this guy can do this with just his mind".  In my PW, where psionics doesn't exist, I just recommend the player make a sorcerer and roleplay that it's mental powers rather than arcane magic.

Wild magic, if I recall from way back in my 2nd edition days, is basically like one or two psionic powers a character can use, but the character doesn't improve in psionics use beyond that.  Think of it like a superhero comics minor character that can only do one little thing, and never really gets more powerful or skilled with that one thing.  You could easily replicate this by making a few "psionic" feats that replicate and using scripting to add those feats to a character (again, a spot where nwnx_funcs would work).

So, yeah.  Limit some classes, rename another, modify/limit spells by spell hooking and nwnx_funcs plugin.

Just my class thoughts.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 26 novembre 2013 - 08:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               In the 90s, I played a game called Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, which used 2nd Edition rules of course. Players could be perservers, but not defilers. Preservers learned spells only at level-up and cast spontaneously like 3rd Edition sorcerers, and unlike 2nd Edition mages.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shemsu-Heru]

               @The Amethyst Dragon

Ah yes, I think that most if not all of the official Dark Sun art in the 2nd E, were made by Brom, practically he created alone, the spirit of the campaign.

You have some interesting ideas. however I just was talking about my ideas. I don't know too much about create or limit some classes, or create new feats and scrips.

About defilers, only hight level defilers are able to hurt or even kill animals and people when cast spells, low level defilers only are able to damage plants.

there is not wild magic in Athas, psionics and wild-psionics are just two types mental power, users.

I'm not sure about use the sorcerer as a psionic. Especially when the Psionic class have been made by  Mr. Nathan in the vault. I think that his Psionic is a prestige class, but probably it won't be too hard to turn it in a common class.

Thanks for your ideas.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shemsu-Heru, 26 novembre 2013 - 11:49 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shemsu-Heru]

               

Empyre65 wrote...

In the 90s, I played a game called Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, which used 2nd Edition rules of course. Players could be perservers, but not defilers. Preservers learned spells only at level-up and cast spontaneously like 3rd Edition sorcerers, and unlike 2nd Edition mages.

In the 90's I played "ravenloft strahd's possession" and "ravenloft stone prophet". They are based on the 2nd edition too, but in Ravenloft not in Dark sun. Howeaver in those games you could not chose evil alignments for your characters. I think that D&D Pc games of that time. Were not thought to allow players to be evil. And probably that is the reason why defilers weren't allowed in Dark Sun Shattered Lands...


Thanks for your ideas.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shemsu-Heru, 27 novembre 2013 - 09:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               

Shemsu-Heru wrote...

@The Amethyst Dragon

there is not wild magic in Athas, psionics and wild-psionics are just two types mental power, users.

Ack, mental typo.  Should read "wild talent", not "wild magic".
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               The point of my post is that in that game, preservers, and presumedly defilers, acted more like sorcerers than wizards.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shemsu-Heru]

               Yes , I have understood your point. I just wanted to make a comment about 90's D&D PC games.

Your point is interesting. So It occurs to me That perhaps treat just one of them like sorcerers and the others like wizards, in other to recycle most of the NWN basic classes.

Perhaps defilers as a sorcerers, because of their lack of selfcontrol and preservers as wizards. What do you think? 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Shemsu-Heru, 27 novembre 2013 - 09:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

               (With regards the December Challenge thread)... Yes, perhaps the Sand Crawler would be possible to do in the time, alongside the Mekillot and Drik.
I'll give it a try if there's time and if I can find more big bricks.

Edit:- Time running out - giving up on Sand Crawler and doing a couple MORE Creatures.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 21 décembre 2013 - 05:43 .