OpenGL for Neverwinter Nights

[Legacy_werelynx]

               It was suggested to me that in order to fix my issues with NWN and new graphic card on XP is to set NWN to use OpenGL instead of DirectX.

More info about my problem along with my system specs:
http://social.biowar.../index/17396319

I would like to ask anyone with experience of OpenGL about how I can install/set it.
I tried searching web, but information is lacking and often contradictory.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_R-TEAM]

               Hi,

first - you are wrong '>
NWN use only OpenGL - and can not be set to DirectX (i dont know any serious game who can switch between OpenGL<>DirectX - the optimizing process for one system is work enough ..)

Second - OpenGL on windows systems come with the GFX-Card drivers.
It is not possible to install it "over" this drivers.
Nearly all Cards that in use today, have OpenGL drivers ...

The problems come from NWN - it uses at time it was relased non standard fancy OpenGL "haks" to get nice GFX with low performance inpact.
Like the "shiny water" effect that iss totaly an hak and only work on cards that support this hak.
Its show , with the developing of GFX drivers - more and more "compatibility mode fall backs" in the drivers get gone (like: if NWNmain the exe that call the opengl driver, activate this and this ..)

So you can blame BioWare to use non conform OpenGL usage, to get for his time nice effects by acceptable speed - or blame the GFX-Card developers to not maintain 10+ years old compatibility modes for old non conform games .....

Anyway - i have managed to get the game running on my Main Lenovo workstation ( i use serious 3D GFX with Maya on an 12 core Xeon CPU with an AMD FirePro card that USE FULL OpenGL at proffesionell level ..)

I can only get infos for ATI/AMD cards ...
First - disable shiny water - no way it work on nearly all cards today...(on my old ATI Radeon9800Pro it have running well '> )
Second - Test with Catalyst AI - Enhanced never worked for me , try Basic ... with this it runs on my old ATI 4850.
Give it GFX errors or invisible characters - disable EnvironmentMapping in advanced GFX settings in NWN (the same place who you disable shiny water) and disable catalyst AI complete.
(this is my actual setting on my FirePro 8700 Card)
Third - NWN dont like the "new" edge-dedect antialiasing in newer ATI/AMD drivers ....
It will be very slow on this setting.I use ATITrayTools and have switched to the next lower AA mode (wide-tent) and it is running blazing fast ...

So i can run an very fast NWN on 1920x1200 (pro 24zoll EIZO LCD-TFT) , but miss shinywater (was nice) and now environmentmapping on creatures too .... (was nice too ..)
But i can play it.

Regards
R-TEAM
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_werelynx]

               Thanks for the reply. One of the things I was not sure about is whether you can switch between those two as every source on the web said different things (NWN uses OpenGL, NWN uses DirectX, NWN uses both etc.)

I have environment mapping on creatures turned off already and while creature models show, all metallic part are transparent and game lags.

ATI Tray Tools resulted in system reboot for me, did not change anything - I have catalyst control center installed. In CCC the options for catalyst AI are only Performence, Quality and High Quality. I have tried them all with no result.

Shiny water does not seem to solve this.

Tried lowest possible settings and highest in CCC. No result.


Do you know if I can get some other drivers for my card(none of the official seem to work) with more OpenGL support?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_R-TEAM]

               Hi,

which version of ATITrayTools you have tryed ? (and if you have an 64bit Windows [like i use] , install of ATITraytools is a bit complicated ....)(and it is not easy today to get the last version '> )
Try catalist AI at performance (this should it disabling ? ) and turn off AA in NWN end in CCC set AA to application setting.Disable shiny water anyway.(if i remember correct - its only impact by visible water , give GFX errors or crash the Game)

And no - "more" OpenGL support is not available besides the official drivers ...
You would need more compatibility support for old outdated games (and yes - i like NWN - still the best RPG available '>  - but it get harder and harder to run it on modern cards ..) and this is only available on older drivers (with all consequences to use outdated drivers).

I think the lag is from the new AA mode, the transparent parts from catalyst AI ...
The confusing from NWN and OpenGL is easy to explain ...
NWN req an DirectX system on windows.All GFX-Cards at the time (till today) of NWN that have DirectX drivers, have an OpenGL driver too.
The GFX is rendered by using the OpenGL API - the sound come over DirectX sound API.
By using OpenGL it was more easy to port it to Linux/Mac as no DirectX is here - but OpenGL and the GFX rendering is the most critical part.

Regards
R-TEAM
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_R-TEAM]

               Hi,

additional infos :
It is possible, the lag is comming from your "multicore" settings, if you have an multicore ... NWN dont like more than 2 core well - its dont get the optimal settings then, and this musst set manual in nwn.ini ... or nwnplayer.ini .... (the times NWN was dev - 2 core was much '> )

Over "other" non official drivers ... years ago, 2 or 3 projects was available , if i remember ... dont remember the names ... but he dont change anything on the core drivers - only get options available that was blocked or disabled. (install options on non official supportet windows versions/GFX settings on cards that dont support this officialy......)

-edit-have found the names of the old, non official driver projects: NGO Drivers / Omega Drivers and the more unknow N2O Drivers -edit-

Regards
R-TEAM
               
               

               

                     Modifié par R-TEAM, 05 octobre 2013 - 04:38 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_werelynx]

               ATITaryTools ver 1.7.9.1573, I have windows XP SP3 32 bit

multicore setting solve nothing for me '> I haven't got more than 2 cores anyway.

will try N2O and NGO drivers, I have tried Omega already with no good results.

if they won't help I'll try playing with CCC as you described.

Edit: N2O won't install

Edit2: Fancy settings don't work either, still transparent, still lags '>

Edit3: It seems ther is no NGO driver for my card.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par werelynx, 06 octobre 2013 - 12:18 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_R-TEAM]

               Hi,

o.k. ....
Let start the hard way '>
First - under xp it is an bad idea to install diff GFX drivers ....
GFX drivers are hard (very hard) to remove full (under Vista and even more under W7 it is going better ..) - most time registry values still exist and can interfer with new installs ...
The cleanest way would be to reinstall windows from the scratch - as i have said - the alternat drivers would only get an benefits if you have an "special" card who have "maybe" an additional function who is in the official drivers disabled and you would test if its run flawless after aktivating it, or if you will XP drivers install on non supportet OS versions (Win2000/ME...)
The second best way is:
Download Regcleaner and install
Under syscontrol tab - software -> remove ATI display driver --> DONT RESTART!!
Under syscontrol tab - software -> remove ATI ControlPanel/CCC
Restart and use F8 for start in Windows secure modus
In device manager - remove device under GFX Card
On the sys partition (most C:\\ ) all folders with "ATI" delete !!
Start Regcleaner and remove all ATI entrys from the registry.
Restart normal - and forbid XP to install drivers for the GFX card self ...
Install the driver you will!
(sorry - i musst this translate from an german tuotorial - so sorry the "suboptimal"  english -
and sorry again - it is from long time ago i have used XP - so i dont know the actual naming exactly ..)

THEN we can say you have an clean driver for you GFX card ready for testing.
And it should be the last available driver from the AMD website.

Regards
R-TEAM
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_R-TEAM]

               Hi,

after you have an clean GFX driver - it is time to limit him, to work flawless (hope) with NWN ..
You are right ... under you GFX-Card, ATITrayTool is too outdated .. nice i found an nearly complete replacement ... '>
Download RadeonPro and install it.
Make an profil for the NWNMain.exe .
In this profil, 2 (3) things are only important :
Under Visual/AntiAliasing - dont use first time MLAA - this i have not on my card, and i dont know if NWN run with this (this was the unknow "3" important thing ..
Under Visual/AntiAliasing Filter USE CFAA (WideTent) ! DONT use the maximum (Edge-dedect)
Under Advanced/Catalyst AI USE Disabled !

Then it should from the GFX settings running (dont forget to set Shyning water and Environment Creature maping OFF in NWN GFX settings self)

To get multicore problems away set this in nwnplayer.ini :
Client CPU Affinity=-2
To get full hardcore blood modus :
Memory Level=100
Memory Access=2
And finaly, to get an big memory buffer:
Max Memory Usage=256

Hope this helps ....
If the GFX probleme gone , but lags still ... you musst experiment with the "Client CPU Affinity" number ... between -2/-1/0/1/2 you should get an good result..
If it runs o.k. you can try to enable MLAA ...

Regards
R-TEAM
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_werelynx]

               Radeon Pro won't work with my OS (XP SP3) only vista+

Client CPU Affinity - I have already tried it numerous times
Memory settings did nothing the game lags still.

Thanks for all the help.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_R-TEAM]

               Hi,

sorry - thern you are (self) doomed .... '>
You use an (more or less) outdated OS, who actual (for actual PC components, like GFX cards) tweaking utillities not run - with an relativ actual GFX Card, who the twaeking tool who run on your OS , not more run (imho ATITrayTools support most 6xxx Cards and few 7xxx ..) ...
So typical - self shot.

You have now 2 options (besides to run NWN in the actual crippled way ..) :
Downgrade your GFX Card , or upgrade your OS .........

Regards
R-TEAM
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_werelynx]

               I have figured as much - Upgrading OS is not an option, other games have problems with newer OSes and I mostly play those older games. Downgrading GFX card, more plausible, but when I get my laptop fixed I'll have to make a separate workstation with it for NWN (Play station '>). Transferring those 140GB of haks and modules will be the worst. No "wurst" without the worst '>

Self shot is looking good '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_R-TEAM]

               Hi,

i hope yoe get it sortet '>
BTW. - i most play too older games and have, after a little twaeking, no problems on Win7Pro64SP1.IMHO it is better to play older games as Vista ...
(but that depend on the age of the "older" games '> - i play games who was "not more actual", but not full old on the WinXP days - like DX8 games, but not WinME/98 games - for DOS games it is emulators available to run this games flawles ..)

Regards
R-TEAM