New Building Placeable Imports

[Legacy_Randomdays]

               3Ravens - I don't think my childhood ever ended, even after 50+ years

Started work on the next set though it will be awhile till done. Something I haven't figured out yet is why none of the buildings have shadows. Any help with that would be appreciated.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Killmonger]

               Yiikes!
Why would the inclusion of this hak crash my mod?
The v169 toolset and "game" both work correctly (loading a mod with or without my custom 2das)
But when I properly include the hak (lower than my 2das) it won't load (I get the the problem box)
I even tried again by compiling all the models to no avail
wtf?
Aren't the batteries included?
Suggestions please?
Addendum
I opened many of them in max and they seem to check out internally
(temp# geometry is linked en masse to the aura base)
Also the structure of my 2da's are appearantly ok too (no corruption)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Killmonger, 19 avril 2013 - 09:43 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <trying to put...>

@ Km: you said you put it under the hak with your custom 2das...
Do your custom 2das include the proper rows for these buildings?
Are there blueprints referencing rows that have changed?

<...first things first>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Killmonger]

               Hey thanks Rolo for a quick response....

By custom, I mean my own merge of content with the placeables 2da of Cep24
No other haks (or 2da) are involved. My own placeables content has been tested ok seperately and in conjunction with cep24
No blueprints, cept for those saved via a test module in the toolset.
Also no changes to the layout of the standard v169 placeable 2da

However, does this E2 hak use any elements from the Cep? (ala textures? I dont think so)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <checking his enochian dictionary...>

What I mean is, you have the models and textures from the E2.hak. Did you merge the E2 placeables.2DA with your custom placeables.2DA? For each model in the E2.hak is there a row with placeable info?

I will look at the E2 hak myself tomorrow, but usually if there's crashing involved, there's a blueprint referencing something wrong or something missing that the area expects to find, IMO.

<...to be sure he's not sending double meanings>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Killmonger]

               Thanks again [ongoing]

Well yes...
The 2da lines were correct (Simply renumbered to fit my 2da)
(So, I too have gone back to basics)
None of my haks are now involved
I launched the cep24starter mod with E2 saved above the cep24 tophak
Without using any E2 content the test module launched correctly
So I created a nice flat area and placed the castle ruins within it and placed my start point nearby
From the toolset I launched the mod (which had been saved prior to launch) and I crashed
I have never had this kind of resistance from the game before so now I'm perplexed...

Fyi I remain eager for the E2 content because it fits my milieu very well
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <writes it in...>

Ok, officially on my list to troubleshoot tomorrow morning at HQ.
Edit: I'm going to assume it's a model issue and not a CEP issue. One of the first things I'll try is simply turning off all shadows.

I, too, like the looks and possibilities here :-)

I have in mind a vague idea of a tileset expansion with some purposely flat areas with new/ruined foundation placeables, building in progress placeables and complete new/old/decaying building placeables... Use separate pwks... Dynamic build spots for player housing.

<...in ink>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 19 avril 2013 - 11:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Killmonger]

               I understand, and will await your learned verdict

As for the other idea, dynamic pwk could be cool too, also in reverse as a structure might be built which at first is passable but becomes progressively impermeable. A timed rescue quest?

Also:
Tidal surges and magical mazes....
Can pwk's be animated?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Killmonger, 20 avril 2013 - 12:05 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Randomdays]

               Just got home and caught up on the thread. I loaded up the mod I was working on and put the castle ruin and the starting point on a map, saved and ran the mod fine with no crash.

All meshes were inported into gmax using .obj files. A lot of the E2 meshes are actually in 2 parts, each with its own texture. I think all the E3 meshes are single imports. I had no issues importing or exporting out as a mdl with pwk. Only changes made to the meshes were removing some door vertices before import with Blender, and rotating the model 90 degrees and enlarging to a size that fit NWN with gmax. I've test most, but not all, the models from both E2 and E3 in game with no errors. The only files in the hak should be the mdls, pwks, tgas for the models and the one placeables.2da.

I started with the standard placeables.3da from CEP 2.4 and added to it. Other things were added as well from things like the CCCs ,but if you copied and pasted just the E2 and E3 content that shouldn't be an issue.

The only thing that might be an issue that I can think of is that when I started working on adding to the 2da, I was having crashes as well - there's a thread from about a month ago that I started for it. For some reason even though I had copied and pasted other items from other haks into the 2da wtih no problem, my adds weren't coming through right. I wound up entering all 65 of the E2 items by hand.

Update - tried adding the hak to a small test mod I had that only some henman scripts added to it - with no E items loaded it ran but had script errors (old mod, so not sure anymore what I was doing) With the castleruin on the map, it froze 75% into the loading bar. Could be issues with the mod.

Made a brand new mod with one area and only the hak, put the castleruin on the map and it ran just fine.

Hopefully you can get it to work and no one else has issues - I have a bunch more buildings to add.

One clue to look for if there's a problem with the copy/ paste was that items in the 2da lower down on the list were not matching their name with the right model anymore. Try looking at an item in the placeables category with a number higher than 6500 - the [cep24]dk cello or the xmas trees. If they're not correct, that could be an answer.

No complaints on the vault - anyone else add the hak and have problems?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Randomdays, 20 avril 2013 - 09:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <99.999% sure...>

e3_castleruins has shadows turned on on very complex geometry. = Bad.

<...he's identified the problem>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <wishes he had a fishing pole...>

Crash: Empire.hak, e3_castleruin.mdl as is
Crash: e3_castleruin with shadows off
Crash: "                  "    "                      "  flagged useable

Works: "                  " with shadows removed, vertexi welded at .8cm (4900+ -> 1448), *use01 node added*

So I see multiple issues as is. A lot of potential, but running the entire folder through cleanmodels would be a good idea.

Edit: So I am :-)

Also make sure there is at least one use node and that it is on the edge or outside the pwk.
Edit: Also of note, a flat pwk stops walking but doesn't block site or range attacks.
Converting the pwk to a solid shape would block LoS and also give you a simple shadow-caster.

Note: I also combined the two halves of the archive so there's a single .7z download. Just use with caution until it's improved :-/

<...so he could use this can of worms>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 20 avril 2013 - 05:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Killmonger]

               RK: Thank you for promptly investigating
I had thought I was losing my grip
<patience>

Randomdays:
Do not despair, I think this content is great (conditional 10) it just needs some more polishing
"A rose by any other name won't always work in the ole Nwn"

But this set back has caused me to inquire
Is a "use node" a dummy object linked independantly to the base or is it part of the hierarchy of the mdl?
I will tear apart a few other placeables and re read the CC3, I presume that they are all the same format
I have many questions about nodes (use, monster, vfx etc)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

                <feeling like...>

The usenode is the spot the engine moves the PC to when it tries to use an object. If the usenode is missing or unreachable, you can get stuck PCs or unuseable objects.

It looks like this for castleruins:


Which puts the PC about *here* when using:


Ask away :-)
Though if you have a lot, start a new thread so we don't hijack this one... ;-) 

Note: I'm running them all through cleanmodels now, turning off shadows. will test them when done.


<...a user>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 20 avril 2013 - 05:22 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Killmonger]

               <As I was just warming up max and marshalling my workflow>
Until I can verbalize my questions properly, I won't hijack the thread. (My nwn time online is so limited)
Has anyone documented the nomenclature structure of model type node hierarchies (as it is now understood) into one document?(ala "CC3 expanded")
I mean, the inclusion of a node into the left hand of aba was good (long ago) but the standardized inclusion of monster nodes into aba, placeables or tiles could seriously affect the the visual components of play (and spell casting; Thxs to Otr)

That said, how many use nodes can a placeable have? Does the engine select and move the character to the nearest one? Are they numbered sequentially? How can this info best be codified for the casual user (some vast cloud based spreadsheet or infographic? attached to the VPP?) The omnibus is great but so much reading can make my head hurt
Perhaps some one could pontificate the best standard procedures.....

There have been just so many recent improvements (ShadowM, virusman etc, etc)
I just want it all to play together nicely
I have not used CleanModels yet, as I am no "tiler" and my mdls tend to be fairly simple or just variations on a preset nwn theme. So I sometimes get bogged down with the mechanics

But the visuals above are tremendously helpful to a max user like me

I remain in awe of the speed and competence of the Nwn community
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Randomdays]

               Thanks for working on this. Since I've only been working with gmax a month or so, most of this is outside my experience. I've never heard of cleanmodels before so I'll have to look into it. I see in the screenshot you changed the mdl to a character type. Why is that?

The original models were netimmerse nifs. Running them thru Blender, I deleted the E2 and E3 game specific parts and deleted duplicate vertices. For a couple of the models I couldn/t do this since it changed the model shape. For some reason, some of the models had doubles or even triples of the mesh so I had to pick one to use. I then exported as a obj and then took that into gmax.

The other thread I mentioned is here :social.bioware.com/forum/Neverwinter-Nights-1/NwN-1-Custom-Content-and-Community-Expansion-Pack/placeable2da-question-16059980-1.html

It has some answers to Killmonger's usenode question. From the discussion there, I had decided not to include a usenode and to keep the plane pwk. Rolo, are you saying that the pwk as a shape instead of a plane will create a shadow?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Randomdays, 20 avril 2013 - 07:50 .