Paying attention to the little things when building matters!

[Legacy_Nissa_Red]

               @Bannor
I don't want my rangers to fire through trees, so I went with option 2 :


(click to enlarge)

I extruded the base of the tree to about 2 meters, then scaled the top to about 95% so that vertices won't overlap, flipped some normals, removed the faces on the base of the tree and applied the correct material to the remaining faces.

Did I correctly replicate what you had in mind, yes ?

EDIT : I never really was certain whether smoothing groups also worked for WOKmeshes. Taking advantage of the thread to ask ^.^ They seem to, but do they really (and is it a good idea to start with) ?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Nissa_Red, 16 mars 2013 - 09:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Zwerkules]

               

Nissa_Red wrote...
I extruded the base of the tree to about 2 meters, then scaled the top to about 95% so that vertices won't overlap, flipped some normals, removed the faces on the base of the tree and applied the correct material to the remaining faces.

Did I correctly replicate what you had in mind, yes ?

You found an important part of the process Bannor forgot to mention which is to make sure the vertices don't overlap and even if they don't overlap, it is a good idea to scale the top to be smaller than the base because there can be problems with woks if there are vertices that are at exactly the same x and y coordinates but different heights. PCs/NPCs can get stuck at the edge of that part of the walkmesh or even on the top of it.

I also think that it is a wrong assumption that making seamless ground textures is impossible. I don't have time to go into detail now, but maybe I'll be able to write more about it tomorrow.

If you also do what OTR described, you will be able to get seamless ground textures with correct lighting.

Edit: I always remove all the smoothing groups from walk meshes. It makes finding problems with them much easier and helps when texturing hilly terrain. If you look at the walk mesh without smoothing groups you'll notice faces that are so steep that they'l get smeared when the ground is textured as a plane far easier than if you look at the ground mesh which has smoothing groups.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Zwerkules, 16 mars 2013 - 09:41 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Nissa_Red wrote...

So without any further delay, here is how I proceed to add missing "use nodes" on placeables, without ever touching GMax/NWmax, even if it's of course strongly recommended to do so in a second time, be it only to check if the model is otherwise "valid" and that your "use nodes" are properly positioned.

Painful process, but managed it to work. Unfortunately, I wasnt able to export anything from GMax (either it does nothing when I press export all or it throws sanity check even on unmodified file) so I had to add use node manually, open model in gmax find good coords, change in pwk manually. Unfortunately I wasnt even able to open one (yet) placeable, throwed some kind of "get" error.

Now, another issue that bothers me: highlighting. Is it possible to control it somehow?

Link to image

Thi highlighting on the image is very annoying, when moving around with character player often target the placeable via Z axis even if turned by back so the city placeable is not visible at all - you know, the same what might happen with (scaled) dragons...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Wall3T]

               what an interesting discussion '>

im glad to see everyone giving there different ideas on this. id like to add an answer of my own to # 3: as a builder i agree with this! but at a different perspective.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Rather than saying to look for tilesets that appear historical or ones that would "make sense", i use what is given to me as the advantage.

one of my more favorite styles of building is to consider how actual medieval european cultures lived, and create structures, or items, that would relate to what im doing.

ive played quite abit of strategy games that did well with trying to immerse you in these experiences (medieval total war, age of empires 2, stronghold) and ive based my building experience from these and a few others

as an example, i created a quarry for use in a city that was made mostly of stone(which would be almost every bioware city set ever '>. i thought of every aspect of its process from: the stone masons, to the cutters, to the warehouse they get transported to

overall, i find its much easier to immerse yourself (the builder) into this world setting and in return would allow players to experience a different style from the usual norm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

its definitley something that most pw's seem to want to miss out on for the exception of "space". i find that many owners do not wish to go the extra mile, thinking it would slow there server space.

its something that we all know about with the toolsets limitations (i mean after all it is an almost (12?) year old system, correct me on that but i know its old!) so most of them tend to ignore the nicer tilesets thinking that the extra texture style or nicer looking buildings will slow there servers down (which in some cases, is true)

im not trying to say that most of the nicer tilesets are a bad idea, in fact its a great idea! '> 

but based on my online experiences, i find that though yes some tilesets do have a slower fps than others. its easy by limiting the area size and type of that area during that time online. this way you arent forcing the player to be immersed in constant flora.

either way, its something that will not change. a good question to ask is, why change something if what you have just simply works?

i think what most builders think, is choosing the best option from the source. id like to see more work in this area myself (perhaps maybe even some historical building tilesets, workshops, etc) but its merely wishful thinking
               
               

               

                     Modifié par oOKyeOo, 16 mars 2013 - 10:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               Removed...noticed Shadoow was already using NWMax - gotta learn to read more carefully 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 17 mars 2013 - 01:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Pstemarie wrote...
Sorry Shadoow. You need to download the GMax version of NWMax to import and export .mdl files correctly. Once you got that installed (it has a self-installer) you should be all set.

I did that, cos with clean GMax there was no way to open nwn models at all., so I found nwmax and was able to import nwn models, but yet not export them. I would send you PM and ask for help privately, but you put me on block list so I cant.

Sorry for OT.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 17 mars 2013 - 01:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               A "get" error? That's new to me. Drop MDA a note, he'll know a lot quicker than me what's up and get you sorted out.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <getting a bit...>

Can't remember where I saw it but did some one ask about a Revolution based serious historical game?

<...absent-minded in his old age>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Master Jax]

               Nissa, so sorry about hijacking your thread to ask some things interesting me, but you see, I can't send private messages to other community members right now. Some browser issue, I'm sure. But I would like to thank both Bannor and Randomdays for taking the time to share a bit of their expertise with me. I would also hope they could contact me themselves via PM, given my current predicament, so I can ask them some other related questions without messing up your thread any more, or opening a whole new one. Thanks in advance, and yet again, sorry for the inconvenience. -___-
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nissa_Red]

               @Zwerkules

Thank you, Zwerkules.

I like to understand what I'm doing, I mean I like when something I'm doing makes sense to my little head. When I see someone else doing it, I sometimes try to do the opposite, see why that wouldn't work and set it back to the original if nothing conclusive comes out of it, but in the case of smoothing groups for WOKmeshes, which I first saw it on some DOA tiles I think, I couldn't find anything obvious or worthwhile to ponder. That is always rather frustrating.

Anyway, I think I'll follow your advice from now on.

Please be well.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nissa_Red]

               @oOKyeOo

Every perspective is welcome here, as far as I am concerned ^.^

While it's true that I sometimes have strong opinions about some topics, I equally value any other take on it, provided it comes as motivated.

In the case of historical veri-similitude (or however one may call it) in NWN, I am a strong proponent of it. I am fond of medieval settings, and history with a big H more generally in any setting : Oriental (Japan, Vietnam, China), Latino or South-american, North-american, the Middle East, etc. I like to travel in my head while playing! That doesn't mean I can't appreciate games which settings like Steampunk (Arcanum), modern/futuristic times (D20), but they ought to make sense, be consistent if you will.

So reading you is encouraging. Yes, more often than not, we ought to make the best with what we have, but that is an interesting challenge, a mission that we implicitely accept when wrapping our sleeves up, donning the metamophorical builder garb +1 and click on that toolset icon. As you said, there are several ways to go about that though, and paying attention to stuff like you mentioned (how do people get to eat in the town we're entering during our adventures, where does the water they need to drink and wash themselves come from, what kind of resources they use or lack to subsist and prosper, do they have places to host visitors, like merchants or pilgrims, do they have places where they can worship their divinities) are at the very core of the discussion I intended to bring up here. Thank you for participating in it, and sharing your point of view.

About using more recent custom content, I also feel strongly in favor of it. While I never got to manage a PW with 60+ more players, and Mielikki preserve me from that (no offense intended), I have had my share of online experiences as player and builder on some social servers, and as I said I also have the chance to share gaming time with some very good friends in LAN (or however it is called). I've never had to regret using "newer" resources like tilesets or creatures (since they're probably which generate the most "lag"), provided I was *very* selective about it. Comparatively, the BW resources are not inherently bad (some of them are actually technically remarkably good even by modern standards), but they sorely lack that little "extra" (I call it a soul) which makes me *want* to use them. Slapping down stuff with little to no attention to people that enjoy the historical, fantastical or artistical candy that is so ever-present in our collective PnP memories (at least I think so), with a strong bias towards purely technical considerations, and be done with it, is not part of my nature. At the end of the day, you can only do so much with near endless artistical freedom that role-playing allows, but limited initial resources.

So to answer your question, why change ? Because it's worth it of course, even if comes at a price sometimes (slightly more taxing on my computer, or spending inordinate amounts of time filtering/sorting/catalogueing/customizing). Bugs are unforgivable, but the rest depends solely on our determination, as many cc artists and builders here keep demonstrating almost daily  ^.^

So, hmm, yeah, there is a lot I'd like to tell you more about this topic, but that would probably extend over to game design itself, art in computer games, which I enjoy discussing don't get me wrong (!), but I don't want to bore you to death just yet (or you'll regret ever replying to this thread, and hold me grudge >.<).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nissa_Red]

               @Rolo Kipp

Let it be known that one should never say Impossible in front of Master Rolo.

I had spent a huge amount of time on the Vault I thought, even on other NWN or game sites scouring and searching for that hakpack, without ever meeting the mystical fairy of success during that quest...

Impossible is sometimes... just not impossible enough for some of us.

PS : Thank you for digging it up for me ^.^
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nissa_Red]

               @Master Jax

Please, by all means. This is not *my* thread. Even if it was so, I have such a bad reputation already in derailing the threads of other community members here that I really would have a heart of purest obsidian to object.

I do hope you've found the answers you were looking for ^.^
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nissa_Red]

               @ShaDoOoW

About the nwMax export thingie, yes, that is what I tried to warn people about :

that also it would allow us to import faulty models but would not let us export us faulty models (even if we're not really interested in fixing those, like unwelded vertices or missing anim keys, see the trebuchet model I "fixed" above), which could frustrate/confuse novice users, but I discarded it. Honestly, it's not what matters to me in the end.

nwMax not allowing to export faulty models is both a curse and blessing. A curse, because sometimes we just don't want (or don't have the time) to "fix" whatever could be wrong in the model (or don't know how to go about it).

In your case, I'd say it still was positive, since you followed PsteMarie's advice and made your first steps with that tool, and managed to meet your goal, which is good news, and probably better than what I achieved when I started with it ^.^

Please be assured that your time and efforts working/learning nwMax are NOT wasted, however you might feel about it right now.

About the highlighting issue, it very much looks like an issue in the texturing and alpha punch through settings :

OMNIBUS
"alpha punch through"

I am far from being an expert in texturing however, so I'll leave it to the experts here to confirm or deny, hopefully getting you back on the right track.

If you still need help with the "use nodes", or something else I am hopefully more savvy at, please don't hesitate.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Wall3T]

               @ Nissa_Red

thanks for the inciteful reply !

the answer you took was precisely why i had asked the question. i wished to see what everyone considers on the topic, and i agree that changing is always worth the hardships that come with it

there was perhaps so many avenues for me to take on that subject, but to keep it brief i think (now more than ever) ive noticed more builders are seeking newer content than before, which is to say exciting!

which had brought up another question i wanted to ask everyone. if most builders still choose to consider in what ill say as the generic (ie: standard texture quality, standard ui, etc) over newer content (ie: overrides, new textures, archiecture, etc), would it be better to create *newer* content more associated with the generic?

i know it may still sound like im stuck on the whole "stay with the old" idea, but i wanted to have it considered as an option to still consider

as cc creators, i realize that we/they are among the few groups who can still help shape the direction in which the community develops (so you can see why im quite intrested in this topic '>

i wanted to share my question with an example of how im looking at the topic by using Borden Ha'elven Iron foundary set.

nwvault.ign.com/View.php

should it be a good idea to create more content like this? or perhaps continue developing and refurbishing  more elaborate and greater quality content?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par oOKyeOo, 17 mars 2013 - 11:59 .