Decent itp editor

[Legacy_Just a ghost]

               Trying to edit a tileset itp, but I am getting quite irate.

ITPTool.exe is working, but one chance at a time. That just isn't very much fun when you need to make a lot of changes.

dlgedit extracts my itp into a readable format, but delivers a faulty itp after recoding.

So, what are you folks using?

I am trying to combine the cc abyss tileset with the ud one. Started with replacing texturers and importing stuff from other tilesets. It's starting to look rather... hellish, I think..


               
               

               

                     Modifié par Just a ghost, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:47 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Michael DarkAngel]

               I've always used BioWare's GFFEditor.  It doesn't open ITP files natively, but you can select "All Files" in the Open File dialog and select them that way.


  MDA 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Just a ghost]

               Gives me a weird error message... Trying my hand on the tile set editor from Jlen now. Seems to work.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_s e n]

               Jlen is a set editor that allows to export basic itps, but doesnt allow to modify the hierarchy or the names inside of it. give a try to the java one its name is tlkedit r13b, or to the modified gff editor (they are both on the vault, just make a search and you should find em)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               I (also) use the modified GFF-Editor, which also reads itps. It always worked fine for me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Just a ghost]

               Alright, will have a look at those.

And now another question: I am modifying a copy of the ud set, and I noticed there's a lot of empty tiles in there. For example s20 and t20. They aren't mentioned in the set file at all. Are they there as a kind of territorial pissing from Bioware, or do they have a real use? Can I replace them with my own tiles?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               If a tile number etc is NOT there, then yes, you can create your own version.

As to why a particular tile may appear to be missing, well, there are several answers to that.

Tilesets typically go with specific letter groups for specific tile types.

1) a-e are typically terrain tiles... no features and/or groups are typically assigned in those letter sets.  The larger tilesets will also usually have terrains in higher letter groups, typically bypassing the crossers in between.  Meaning you might find tilesets with terrains that use j-r etc for additional terrain types.

2) f-i are typically crossers, these will be your roads, streams, walls etc... they will have mixtures of the various terrain types, with the specific crosser tiles created to allow them to work with each terrain.  

3) the rest to the letter groups are varied.  s-x are typocally where individual features and groups are created.   Groups, well groups can be a bit confusing.  Some of Bioware's original sets would use row/column definitions for specific groups, IE s01, s02, and t01, t02 for a single 2x2 group.  Other groups may and can be assinged as t03, t04, t05, t06 that are assigned as a single 2x2 group.

4) z is typically assigned as edge tiles.

All of those are just "typical" and NOT forced by rules.  You will find tilesets created by the community that completely use a different naming convention.  Most of us tileset creators/authors follow the naming conventions used by Bioware, it is easier that way, but again, it is NOT a requirement.  No specific tile name has to exist, gaps can be found in letter groups. Usually crossers will have lots of different gaps in their numbers, so will groups/features.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Just a ghost]

               Thanks for the explanation!

What I mean though is that there are models for the tiles. They are just dummies with no content but the bare model definition. There's actually quite a lot of them. I have the feeling they used some set template that added this stuff, but I am not 100% sure about that.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               then they likely just copied over an old set and made edits to it to remove tiles they didn't think they needed.

To be honest, using an old set file like that is typically a mistake. Leaving large numbers of basically empty tiles is also a mistake. It can cause issues.

You can check your group definitions at the end of the tileset, if there are no groups using those empty tiles, you can sometimes remove them... here though you MUST be careful. If a group uses a tile numbered in the set file as tile number 99, but you have deleted tilenumber 98, you may have issues.

Gawd, that will be really difficult to try to explain.

A .set file uses tile numbers for each tile, each tile uses a specific tilename. BOTH are required for that tile to be able to be used in game/toolset. Deleting a number because it is not used is ok, but ONLY if you renumber all the remaining tiles AND edit the groups section to match up the correct tiles.

The game engine uses the .set file to find the PHYSICAL tile by it's referenced .mdl name, but it uses the tile Number to find that reference. A .SET is basically a 2da type file, but it uses multiple rows instead of columns to define the tile's data. Each tile number is the start of a 2da type line for reference. However, since it is NOT a real 2da file, you need some other set of tools to edit the .set file. You can use the various tools mentioned above, or you can just use notepad or whatever your favorite text editor is.

Using the above mentioned tools typically provides you with a GUI (Graphical User Interface) to make things easier to visualize, but it is still a text file that is written and used by the game. There is no compiler for the .set, it is not needed. There was no GUI provided by Bioware to edit .set files. Those types of utils were created by the community. Bioware also did not provide any tools to directly edit a tile.mdl file, but they DID provide some basic import/export routines that were then copied/modfied/improved etc by the community. (Nwmax, Veltools, TSC, MDA's tileset editor, all sorts of other stuff).

As far as .ITP editors (to bring this back on topic) I use a .tlk editor, I can't tell you which one I use since I am not at home.  None of the various tools that I have fouind so far are real easy to use GUI types of programs.  Each has plusses and minuses.  Using a tlk editor for a itp editor is sorta confusing, but it works for me.  It still requires an enormous amount of manual editing though.  Copoy/Paste then edit type of steps.  However, using the tlk editor can load the real .tlk file and allow you to find names for groups, features from the original bioware .tlk file. 

The community has a mix/match of multiple tools that do various things.  Some are better (by opinions only) than others at certain things, and can also be used to accomplish other things they may not have been intended for.  There are various posts within these forums that list programs to do x and y, or other programs that will do y and z but not x.  It is all a trade off.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Bannor Bloodfist, 22 septembre 2012 - 12:43 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Just a ghost]

               Your explanation is fine. I already figured most of that out by hacking, but now I got a nice framework where all the info comes together. You should gather these gems somewhere, they're very useful to newbs.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Just a ghost]

               I stuck with the Jlen editor, after a bit of fiddling it does what I want. All this techy stuff got me inspired, though, so I downloaded Gmax and now I can do two things: delete bits and move vertexes, which is exactly all I need to make some crystal shards for my hell.

Behold: noob in action!

I think I will have more questions soon.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Just a ghost, 24 septembre 2012 - 07:36 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               very nice atmosphere there. When you align the spikes texture a bit, use "uvw box mapping" with a 50% scale of the texture it´s almost perfect;)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Just a ghost]

               Hah, you answered my first question without me even asking it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Just a ghost]

               Can somebody give me a quick hint? I am using Wayland's MDL stuff in GMax. When I click export I see my model popping up in the MaxScript listener. I just can't find a way to copy all of that in a new file outside GMax besides copy/pasting it part by part (you can't select more than x characters in the script thinghy). This must be easier than I think.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Michael DarkAngel]

               Aside from the way you are currently doing it, no other way to do it with the tools you are using.

I would suugest switching to NWMax or NWgMax Plus (second listing).

They both use a utility called Snoop that runs in the background and collects the contents of the listener and saves it to a location of your choosing.


  MDA