VFX problem after running custom animations

[Legacy_Terendil]

               Hello everyone. While gathering haks for a small game I was planning to run for my friends, I ran into a problem, and since I haven't touched NWN for several years, I'm not sure how I should even approach fixing it. Any help or tips would be appreciated.

The thing is that I wanted to add the old krs scabbard visual effects into the module with my own simple scripts. However, it seems that, while using any of the game's own animations isn't a problem, running any of Vaei's custom animations resets the scabbard effect into some sort of a default position, where its actually stuck into the character sideways. Only solution I've found so far is changing the phenotype back and forth and then reapplying the visual effect (doing only the latter doesn't help), but that is obviously hard on the computer if the animations haven't been already loaded, and seems silly to do after every animation.

Could anyone push me towards the general direction of what I should do? Should I try to change the positions in the vfx models, or is the problem somewhere else? In either case, thank you for any help.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               The problem is somewhere in the custom animations.  The impact node is getting rotated during one or more of the animations, and at the end it isn't getting rotated back to the starting position.

I've seen the same thing happen with the VFX quivers & arrows.  I deal with this by doing part of what you did: changing phenotypes when it happens. My PW's players can switch phenotypes (for different combat animation styles) at any time, so I haven't had enough pressure to dive into modifying basic animations myself.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               There are rotation keys on the a_ba impact node that should have been fixed in 1.68 but were missed and also missed the fix list for 1.69 as well.  This came up again in a thread a year ago.  I identified the issue in the track view editor and then fixed it as carefully as possible.  Same work I think NWC_SNAKE did, but I went out of my way to be surgical about the fix.  Maybe he did too, I dunno.  The test module I allude to (which contains the fixed file) can be found here.

Standard disclaimer: Everything seemed to work well for the gentleman I was trying to help but there may be other issues.

Edit: Direct link modified a_ba here
               
               

               

                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 09 août 2012 - 02:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               @OTR:
That fix goes straight into the override, thanx:)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

OldTimeRadio wrote...

There are rotation keys on the a_ba impact node that should have been fixed in 1.68 but were missed and also missed the fix list for 1.69 as well.  This came up again in a thread a year ago.  I identified the issue in the track view editor and then fixed it as carefully as possible.  Same work I think NWC_SNAKE did, but I went out of my way to be surgical about the fix.  Maybe he did too, I dunno.  The test module I allude to (which contains the fixed file) can be found here.

Standard disclaimer: Everything seemed to work well for the gentleman I was trying to help but there may be other issues.

Edit: Direct link modified a_ba here

This looks something that could be added into my pet project as its client-side thingy right? Not fully understand the moddeling kung-fu here but looks like simple correction in anim model.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               @Terendi - If you try this out as a possible fix, can you let me know if it works for you?  On re-reading your post, I'm not sure my fix for a general probelm is going to fix your specific problem.

@ShaDoOoW - Yeah, either my fix or NWC_SNAKE's fix (or somebody elses's) should be in a pack like yours.  It's definitely a real "bug".  The module and hak here are set up so you can test the effect.  Load the module, pull the lever and an arrow will appear in the back of your neck.  Fall down backwards, get back up and the arrow will still be in the back of your neck.  In the toolset, remove the hak (with my fixed a_ba.mdl) from the module and run it again.  After pulling the lever to get the arrow in the neck and falling backwards, when you get back up the arrow will have rotated around to where your right arm is.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 09 août 2012 - 04:57 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Terendil]

               Thank you for clarifying where the problem is, Amethyst Dragon.

OldTimeRadio, the fix didn't seem to help with this issue, sadly. This is a little weird, in fact, since the person you were helping said that one of BioWare's own animations (fall down backwards) caused this same problem for him, while with me they don't screw up the vfx - only custom animations do that. I'll try to fiddle around a bit more in case I missed something, though. Thanks a lot.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Terendil]

               

Terendil wrote...

I'll try to fiddle around a bit more in case I missed something, though.

And of course I had, namely that "Fall down backwards" was causing the same problem, and your modification fixes it.

I guess the a_fa.mdl that is included with Vaéi's animations is the culprit of my original problem, then? Like it having an impact node with a rotation key, as you mentioned being the case with a_ba.mdl?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Terendil]

               Oh dear I have no idea what I'm doing. Using Vaéi's animations while having a vfx attached results in exactly the same rotation effect that happened with BioWare's animation before OTR's fix, but I can't find a similiar deviation in either of the .mdl's that are included with the hak.

So far I've kept with the phenotype/appearance refresh every time after one of the animations has been executed, and it works with most of them, albeit crudely.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               

Terendil wrote...
Oh dear I have no idea what I'm doing. Using Vaéi's animations while having a vfx attached results in exactly the same rotation effect that happened with BioWare's animation before OTR's fix, but I can't find a similiar deviation in either of the .mdl's that are included with the hak.

Hrm, ok: I just remembered that on one of the recent podcasts, Pstemarie and _six of ProjectQ recounted that they'd recently added all but one of Vaei's animations into their project.  Maybe worth a quick PM to either of them or posting a query on their forums to see if they ran into this and if anyone's had problems with chest/head-aligned VFX with them.  Since they just went through this territory, they might already know exactly what the issue is.

So far I've kept with the phenotype/appearance refresh every time after one of the animations has been executed, and it works with most of them, albeit crudely.

Yeah, it's good that you're able to work around it but hopefully something like that is only temporary.

BTW, if you ever respond to me in a thread and I don't get back to you, feel free to PM me.  Sometimes I miss responses I would otherwise reply to.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               With the exception of the rootdummy, which moves the entire model (e.g. jump, appear/disappear), dummy nodes should never have keys set on them. Since they are always linked to a body part they should always inherit their movement from the keys for those parts.

The Bioware models are a mess. Many of the dummy nodes have keys set on them which should be removed. To do it right you either need to go through the model piece by piece, frame by frame and remove the keys OR make a new anim base without the dummy nodes, import the anims, export the model, reload, and finally add the dummy nodes and export again.

The nodes that need repair are rhand, lhand, lforearm, impact, and head. If you look in all the Bioware supermodels you'll see that these nodes usually have keys set in one or more anims. The only keys that make sense are the lforearm keys cause sometimes the shield rotation looks odd without some keys of its own.  
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 15 septembre 2012 - 01:32 .