More helmets, no heads

[Legacy_Mavrixio]

               The plt is not a problem: you have 6 channel instead of 4 and for the missing channels:

tatoo1 and tatoo2: those are used for the lips and eyes which is not what we should be for. We now have the chance to have dedicated color channels for the lip and eyes. So finally characters will be able to have red lip and black tattoo.

hair are only on the head (normally), so it dont need to match any other body part color, so it is not a problem if we use a different color char. The clothe/leather color chart are perfect for hairs.

skin: 80% of the characters use the same 10 colors and those 10 colors almost already have a perfect match in the cloth/leather color chart. The cloth color chart could also easely be adjusted to have a perfect match with the 10 most used 10 hair colors and it wont break the design or armors.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Mavrixio, 13 juin 2012 - 11:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Carcerian]

               I experimented with this a bit, using the gith female head, as it has a lot done in the way of plt work already.

Skin and Hair were remapped to leather 1,2, Tattos to Cloth, Metal left alone (as head has metal jewelry)



They do scale, tho they seem a bit off in relation to each other.



I also tried creating a new item type by copying the helmet entry in baseitems.2da with limited success, the first head would show up fine, but none of the 2nd+ would be selectable, as the appearnces tab was blank despite everything being numbered correctly...

510       182          head                     2                2                 0x00001            0                 1             head            0                  1               ****            ****            it_bag            ihead               0             ****            0              ****           ****             ****               0            255          ****        ****          ****           ****            5            3            1            1                  1710            0                8            0            7              0              ****         ****         ****         ****         ****         4              0          0                 5445                0                   0                  20           ****              ****               ****            ****                   ****            ****            ****            5                  1

               
               

               

                     Modifié par Carcerian, 14 juin 2012 - 07:37 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Mavrixio]

               That head is perfect Carcerian, if it is a bit off, well it certainly does a better job than NWNArmory.
You could also put it on a male body '>

Carcerian wrote...
I also tried creating a new item type by copying the helmet entry in baseitems.2da with limited success, the first head would show up fine, but none of the 2nd+ would be selectable, as the appearnces tab was blank despite everything being numbered correctly...

Toolset dont seem to support them but they work perfectly ingame, which is what matter '> You can set the appearance with a script or edit the blueprint file with a GFF editor.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Mavrixio, 14 juin 2012 - 11:43 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               

Rolo Kipp wrote...

Este!

Rolo!  

Mavrixio wrote...

The clothe/leather color chart are perfect for hairs.

skin: 80% of the characters use the same 10 colors and those 10 colors almost already have a perfect match in the cloth/leather color chart.

 

I disagree strongly!  There are lots of colours in the hair and skin palettes that you can't replicate quite right using only the cloth/leather colours - at least in the initial 64 colours of the palettes, which were all we had before the 1.68 patch, there are lots of unique ones.  I would strongly recommend a custom palette.  I would be happy to share the ones I've made if the community wants them!  Just one more thing I always meant to tinker with more before releasing, that's all... 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               For the record, here is one of my custom palettes with a bunch of extra colours plus a line of skin tones at the bottom.  I'm not really happy with all the colours yet, which is why I've been sitting on this, but it might be worth sharing if only for the skin / hair as cloth / leather...


               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 14 juin 2012 - 11:59 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Mavrixio]

               is the game compatible with 16x16 colors chart? oO
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Yep!  I've been using that expanded palette since I made it.

For me, the only question is whether or not it can take an even bigger palette...  I haven't tried; maybe I should!

EDIT: For the record, the palette has to go in the override folder.  Hakpak won't implement it.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 15 juin 2012 - 12:17 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Mavrixio]

               ok, then i need that palette '>, do you have the tga file?

It can certainly not take bigger than 16x16 though, it need to fit in 1 byte.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Mavrixio, 15 juin 2012 - 12:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Yeah, I just tried...  Got abnormal program termination on a palette twice as tall!  Yeah, of course I have tga files.  Give me a few minutes and I'll post 'em up.  Maybe I should put 'em on the Vault...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mavrixio]

               Thanks! ... so i guess that solve any the plt problem with using helmets intead of heads.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Right so.  I had previously been putting a line of skin in both leather and cloth palettes.  Just now, I quickly edited the cloth palette to include two lines of hair.  The tga (containing the underlying colours used by the system) is working just fine, but unfortunately the bmp (containing the palette we see and choose from in our user interface) isn't cooperating.  It's showing the leather instead of the cloth.  However, if you do pick the bottom lines in spite of them showing different colours, you will get the hair that I put in there, as the tga is working correctly.  Don't know what I might have done wrong with thie bmp.  I seem to remember there being a "knack" to the bmps... maybe only working in Paint or something like that, editing them in another program might do something to them that causes a problem...

File link!  Put the images into your override folder and tell me if they work for you too.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 15 juin 2012 - 12:50 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Carcerian]

               It's a usefull idea, i can see it making all my monster heads into "heads" items, freeing up regular head slots. I could also put all the CEP heads and d20 Modern heads in their own areas, not loosing any to one overriding the other...

Not sure if im going to replace all my regular pc heads with it just yet however...

Pros:

Large potential number of head item types: Assuming new head Item type does work fine ingame, you could have head2 head3 head4 etc item types to your heart's content. Even "MaleElfHead", "FemaleOrcHead", "NPCHead", "KoboldHeads" "Robot Head" for examples, thus allowing each race+gender+whatever to browse and tailor only heads appropriate for them. A designer could sort heads in any way they chose, possibly in different ways for different races (do you really need male/female draconian heads?)

Different equiptment color slots: Have their own metal color slots, that isnt shared with armor color . Simpler heads that require hair/skin only or skin/eyes only could even have 2 cloth or leather slots open as well.

Cons:

Require custom script support (proper scripting could address most of the cons)

Can be removed.

Loose use of helmet slot

Can't choose heads in toolset (making designing NPC's harder/more complicated to design)

No gender or race restrictions (a male half orc can run around wearing a female halfing head)

Doesnt match body skin color, or hair colors, or armor colors

You loose use of skin/hair color channels, reducing number of channels a plt has available

Heads with actual tattoos would not match body tattoos

You loose the ability to have head models different for each race/gender/phenotype (thin/large) as in very few cases (d20 modern/monster heads) would you want the same head available to all races (and esp genders)


Overall It's a concept with potential, the scripting will probably be the trickiest part, as well as requiring a LOT of plt conversion.

I dont see why even Rolo's refernce heads couldnt be such heads. You could keep the all your exsisting heads and support new systems such as the one he has envisioned as well.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Carcerian, 15 juin 2012 - 03:17 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Carcerian]

               

Estelindis wrote...

Right so.  I had previously been putting a line of skin in both leather and cloth palettes.  Just now, I quickly edited the cloth palette to include two lines of hair.  The tga (containing the underlying colours used by the system) is working just fine, but unfortunately the bmp (containing the palette we see and choose from in our user interface) isn't cooperating.  It's showing the leather instead of the cloth.  However, if you do pick the bottom lines in spite of them showing different colours, you will get the hair that I put in there, as the tga is working correctly.  Don't know what I might have done wrong with thie bmp.  I seem to remember there being a "knack" to the bmps... maybe only working in Paint or something like that, editing them in another program might do something to them that causes a problem...

File link!  Put the images into your override folder and tell me if they work for you too.

Could the "knack" be alpha layer for shininess of metallic colors?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Carcerian, 15 juin 2012 - 03:37 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               

Carcerian wrote...

Could the "knack" be alpha layer for shininess of metallic colors?

I didn't think bitmaps *had* alpha layers...  
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Failed.Bard]

               Might the incorrect bmp be something internal as opposed to something you did "wrong"?
 As I understand it, cloth, leather, and the tattoos share a pallette by default, so they may have referenced them all internally to just use the cloth bmp.

 Is it possible to give tattoo colours their own override color set to test that?  If they accept a different pallette but default back to the cloth bmp  it would at least give teh reason why, even if not a solution in that case.