Author Topic: Sea Waves  (Read 2407 times)

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4349
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 12:24:48 pm »


               <getting his hands...>

You might also sculpt in the bow-wave and wake of the ship to enhance the forward movement.

I also think the skyball (new word!) should be much larger, as that would allow surface-piercing seamonsters/pirates ship creatures to approach... ;-)

You guys keep inspiring me to do stuff... Hey, if Sea, Air Land Travel wins the CCC you'll have a submission! <not gonna happen any time soon, boss>
Might. Still time. <dream on, old man>
Hrmph.

Anyway, I love waking up to all this goodness =)

<...wet>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Karvon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 04:44:25 pm »


               Looking better and better.  Ideally this could be used with the variety of ships available.

Karvon
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Vivienne L

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 06:31:01 pm »


               Wow OldTimeRadio, that is even more awesome! And I second what everybody is saying that the sphere should be bigger!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Vivienne L

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2012, 07:05:09 pm »


               

ShadowM wrote...

No though are not my waves, but I did start my work with them. My waves are even better they actually move like wave and have the crest appear. Mine are placables with a number of varieties that will allow you to do shores and sea effect. That what I was talking about I have to take his emitters and add them to my placables. '<img'> I have to dig them out and take some pics for you all when I can. '<img'>


I think we would all love to see your placeable waves!'<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2012, 09:10:40 pm »


               @ShadowM - Sounds cool but I'm not sure what that would look like.  You should post some screenies or video of those waves, they sound great!

@KlatchainCoffee - Though this is a WIP, It should work with a 1x2 or larger ship.  Just adjust the placeable accordingly.  There's a download button below to check it out.  Again, pretty tame based on what you want but it's sort of a start to give others ideas or build off of.

@The Amethyst Dragon - Thank you for the feedback, I agree.  I increased the size to 11000.  The fisheye effect you're talking about could just be my choice of skyboxes.  There's a download link lower down so you can get a feel for this in-game and/or build on it or change it.    For moving wave action, I added two animated Wave modifiers which mostly work- you can see them breaking up the grid lines below.  I'm having problems getting my Noise modifier to loop right so the ocean has waves but I think is still too "smooth".  The tileset/placeable combo is the most attractive thing so far.
'Posted 

@Rolo Kipp - Excellent idea- I tried sculpting the bow wave a bit but it gets complicated because I have modifiers which distort the mesh as they move over it and that throws my adjustments off.  I can throw another Edit Mesh modifier on top of all that (which is cool, didn't realize that would work) and then fine-tune the vertices but they still move around a bit.  On the larger skybox, you and Amethyst Dragon and all the others are right.  We'll see if it's enough to take away the extreme fisheye of the smaller version.  I picked 11000 because it seemed like a good distance for...cannon-y back and forths during the battles aquatic.  Exhibits A and B:
'Posted'Posted

Now if we only had more information on making custom connonball projectiles...Oh, wait...

Anyway, here's my latest WIP.  It's definitely a WIP.  Play around with it, grab ideas from it, build off it, change it.  But it's an incomplete WIP so please don't build with it as-is.  IMO, KlatchainCoffee can do whatever he likes with it for his adventure but hopefully something better and more specific to his needs will come along, either from me or someone else.  '<img'>

'Posted

Notes:
* Compiled with this compiler.
* In this specific case, I'm exporting with sanity checking turned off.  The above compiler is very strict, IMO, and if it gets passed that I don't really care what NWMax thinks.  Again, that's in this specific case.
* Unpack to override directory
* Make an 11x12 area or so using the Tropical tileset, place your boat facing East, select Armoire placeable, place it down and adjust it so white triangle fits snugly into your bow.  Adjusting the placeable so that it's at 0.0 Z works really nicely in this current incarnation.  Make it non-static, non-usable.
* Included is the uncompiled ASCII version of this model for you to look at.  This model must be compiled before being used.

To custom content makers:
Exporting AniMesh: Like playing around with animesh but having problems with all your memory being sucked away when you export the model and possibly crashing Max?  You might want to try this burlier version of the NWMax export script which has only been modified to include more memory garbage collection during the export of animesh, keeping Max from running out of memory.  It will take a bit longer to export but you shouldn't have to worry about Max crashing when it does it.  Obviously, make a backup of the script this replaces.  I think it only works under Max but GMax folks are invited to try it out too:
'Posted
Making more realistic animations on dummy node: Linear controllers on your animation dummy are..."ok"...but if you want more natural riding-the-waves movement, try using an Euler XYZ controller and then bake it down to Linear keys using NWMax's Anim Baker.  This basically allows you to simulate Bezier-style rotation movement (though there isn't a Bezier rotation controller).  However, when you're done your animations might not look right.  They might slow down at the wrong point or look odd.  This blog post will help you understand what's going on with your animations and how to fix it using the Track View - Curve Editor.  If you work with non-Linear controllers on your animation, it is vital to understanding how the Track View - Curve Editor allows you to easily fix them.

Bonus Ideas:
* Turning ships into phenotypes (dynamic ships!), having invisible walkmesh on a tileset ocean where you see the second ship in the screenshot above and then having the ship phenotype (or at least a creature with a ship appearance) move from behind the player's ship into the position. Once it's where the walkmesh elevated walkmesh is (all the sea would have to be walkable for this to work), spawn creatures on it.  Cannon fire from different cannons could be simulated using monster nodes and custom spell projectiles.
* As above, using VFX to "personalize" ships and/or change the state of destroyed cannons/crew by using Ippensheir-style VFX and tracking of it.
* Similar to the first idea of making a tileset with walkable sea, make one with walkable sea which allows walking up onto ship tiles and then use blocking placeables to prevent walking.  At the appropriate time, remove walking placeables (i.e. when a pirate dinghy/ship has sidled up to the player's ship) to allow creatures/players to embark/disembark.
* Islands, clouds or other phenomena to be given 180 frame animation, then spawned outside of the world spehere, turned on allowing them to "move passed" the player's ship, making the sea more interesting.

None of the above are particularly exotic operations- I think.  They all rely on doing simple things which people already do with tilesets, placeables or VFX, just applying them in non-standard ways.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 25 mars 2012 - 08:21 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4349
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2012, 09:34:43 pm »


               <gasping...>

LOL! OMG! Your choice of enemies is... <boss? boss! quick! someone summon heimlich!>
*wordlessly offers some interesting research in Blender*

<...for breath>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Killmonger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2012, 09:47:59 pm »


               First , Let me say all of you folk are just tremendous.

Some time ago I tried to make placeable waves. Actually I had had some success, but when I see the possibilities show above, it inspires me to a least comment.

I found that 2 animated sheets of polygons set at an acute angle to each other certainly conveys the "motion of the ocean" but required huge computing time. OTR's texturing effects and the inclusion of emitters
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Killmonger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2012, 10:11:36 pm »


               Ooops (wrong form)

The inclusion of emitters and the animation node would make for a fantastic stormy ocean effect. The skybox could also be animated like carriage overland illusion in that microset tileset of ???

Any way the best effect that I had managed was to use max to create a 4x8 (?) skinmesh which was rigged to some animated non renderable bones (either in 2d like a sine wave or 3d like a corkscrew) by choosing a modest amplitude the wave  (or wake) effect can work just fine. (Interesting animated motions alert) Except the wave would wash over the deck of the ships that were available then. Also the perimeter of the sheet must not be affected by the motions of the other verts

So I made quite a few different types. Longish rollers for the front and back of the ship and smaller amplitude under the ship and wild narrow ones to surround the sides of the ship. Within the game it was a quite passable effect using only the original ship in the tileset.

I offer this approach to you all because I still just dont have the time to contribute fully with this community. My work keeps me only as another lurker. I am just so impressed by the range of talent that this game inspires

Another approach for cresting waves was to create an animated series of a rolling, shaped cylinders...

Because this missive was broken in the middle I've lost my train of thought.

Long live Nwn !!
and
Happy Modding ...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Vivienne L

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2012, 10:14:39 pm »


               Really amazing stuff, OTR!!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2012, 10:38:20 pm »


               @Rolo Kipp - "Release....THE THATCHER!"  As for a better procedural ocean, I've tried at least one free plugin and it was both nice and not so great at the same time.  It's not in my demo but at one point I had a Noise modifier (actually two) on top of the Wave modifiers.  What it did right was those noise modifiers put visible wave crests between you and the enemy ship and the horizon which looked really nice and also combatted the fisheye view- and the actual waves (from the Wave modifier) gave a more uniform body to the whole thing.  It actually looked like it does at sea, where you dont' see the horizon so much as wave crests.  Problem was the crests affecteed the mesh under the boat and waves came into the boat.  I need to get a little tricker with Soft Selection and I think it could work better.  The procedural oceans are good, I just haven't found a good plugin for Max which allows me to set up the wave aspect of it.  I think they all expect I'm going to be doing a space warp or something- which is the kind of thing I'd do for animating it for a movie but not for a game.

@Killmonger- I think the carriage ride you're thinking of is by Lord of Worms.  He and Goudea did lots of good work with false perspective stuff.  Thanks for the tip, I think I see what youre saying and I'll play around with that.  I tried doing a skin mesh ocean like that but I didn't like the way the deformations worked.  Maybe I'll look at that again.  I agree abou the pain of waves coming through the deck or any other place they're not wanted.

@Amethyst Dragon - Oops, forgot: Aside from the things I mention to Rolo, above, my skybox also doesn't use the skyblurpoly "trick" so part of what might make it more realistic is using that.  Basically, it's a texture in a slightly smaller shell of my skybox which is pure alpha transparent and whcih keeps the fog from mucking with it.  I think such a thing would allow me not to have to push the fog out like I do, and that make things look a little more realistic.

@Vivienne.l - Thanks!  Nothing stoping ya from joining in!  At heart, it's just a dummy node with the simplest of animations, a flat plane and a sphere.  Could be lots of fun playing around with, even for a beginner.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 25 mars 2012 - 09:39 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_ShadowM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2012, 11:55:35 pm »


               I will get some stuff out not this monday but the next one. Are you animating you mesh, looking at in nwnmax it look like it. Mine are single tile size, but making a big one like yours is great too. This will be a lot of fun to mess with '<img'>. Could you just make it the size of the tileset and use the area's skybox?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_lordofworms

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 12:58:43 am »


               what about no skybox sphere at all>?
first it just seems off a bit that the clouds would rock back and forth along with the ocean like that.. would it be easier and be more useful as just the tileset feature with the rocking/animated ocean?. let the mod builder just use fog/limits color blending to put it together nicely and use the built in skyboxes.

don't take the critique badly, this is surely waaay cool!!! I got excited just looking at the first concept!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 05:04:13 am »


               @ShadowM - I'm looking forward to seeing those.  Yeah, I'm animating the mesh with 2 animated Wave modifiers right now.  I had some Noise modifiers on the stack but they don't seem to play too well with the way I have them set up currently.  The Noise modifiers don't loop like I'd expect them to so they don't come out seamless but they make great random sub-waves.  As far as discarding the skybox, there's a download link below which contains a version of the model without the skybox as well as a video of that model in action.

@LordofWorms - It's all good!  The original request was for something simulating a big ocean storm and so the choices I made were with that in mind.  IMO, the sky rolling with the sea causes a sort of mental distinction that separates the ship from the other two.  It's an illusion after all, so the more things I can stack up to enhance the effect help.  The water waves on their own are kind of weak so the sky and things like the bow wave help.  Below this is a video of leaving out the skybox entirely and you can download the modified model to check it out yourself:

'Posted

There's still room for improvement but because we're dealing with a standard skybox (with the skyblurpoly shell), we can bring fog back in and the edges look much better.  I like it quite a bit, actually!  I'm going to try to polish things up a bit over Spring Break but what do you all think?  I like the rocking sky but I'll trade it for not having to deal with the edges where the water meets the sky.  I'd still like to do some combat at sea and I don't know if this will make it harder or easier but for just plowing through the ocean it's pretty sweet- and you get control back of the skybox scripting for changing weather, etc.:

'Posted
               
               

               


                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 26 mars 2012 - 04:05 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Karvon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 07:39:05 am »


               So very cool work!  

Now, if it were walkable water so I could toss sea monsters and swimming PCs out there, I'd be in heaven '<img'>

Karvon
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Frith5

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sea Waves
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 03:43:26 pm »


               Outstanding!