mini map hide disabled

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               Maybe if the OP would tell which tileset it is and a screenshot example of the/an area with
the offending issue... it could help in the troubleshooting. Saying "I'm using CEP 2.4 and the 2x2 home interior as such and such issue..." is not very clear.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I mentioned these tilesets in the thread:
Lord of Worms' Fantasy Interiors - doors do not hide minimap
Fort Interior (bioware/DLA) - most doors do not hide minimap, and yet those that do are not tileset only doors because the door model I am using is one of Tiberius' custom doors.

I am amazed that the scripting "solution" is continuously put forward. Please put it to rest. It is not the right application for an interior area.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               Gladly I'll set it aside, now that you have stated you don't have ANY interest in it - I'll leave you to edit tiles. On your first mention of it, however, you simply stated it did not work for you, which is why I asked.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Zwerkules]

               

nwnsmith wrote...

 I am using CEP for a module and the feature 2x2 homes do not hide by default nor do they respond to scripting that hides area map for players. Is this something that I can edit via the .set file in a text editor? If so can anyone point me in the right direction? It is also annoying to walk into one room and see the contents of all others within this map. 


Thanks so much!!!

Can you be a bit more specific as to which CEP tileset you are using which has the 2x2 homes feature (which should be a group, not a feature '>). I guess it is just a matter of wrong path nodes. Probably most of the tiles added to the Bioware tileset the CEP tileset is based on simply have an A as a path node, even if that is the wrong one.
If there are just path nodes and no visibility nodes, the visibility is the same as the path node. That means you can see in all directions on a tile with the path node A.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_wyldhunt1]

               What is the easiest way to edit the path/visibility nodes?
I don't do very much cc stuff, so I'm not sure which tools are best.
Was Rolo correct, that we have to edit the set manually with a gff editor?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               I just tested the "Fort Interior" on a module with a personal hakpack of mine and all rooms (Tiles\\Tilesets) remain hidden... could it be CEP creating the Boo Boo?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               I am not using CEP. And regardless I do see the issue on my end.

The solution AFAIK is to edit the tileset. If anyone knows how this solution works then great, please come forward.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 25 mars 2012 - 11:04 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Zwerkules]

               Yesterday I looked through the CEP tilesets to find one that had a 2x2 homes group and found the city interior tileset which is a copy of Bioware's interior tilesets with additions. The 2x2 homes groups is no addition to the tileset though. It also existst in the original tileset.
What is really strange is that the path nodes are correct, but the tiles also all have a visibility node A.
I have no idea why Bioware added that visibility node. Those visibility entries in the set file make it possible to see what's on the other side of a wall, even though there isn't even a door in it.

I looked at the first version of the set file I found. Maybe in later versions this was changed. I haven't checked that yet.

Edit: I made an area with the Bioware interior tileset and used the homes groups. Even in the latest version of the set file the visibility entries are still there and this makes all rooms next to those groups visible. Removing the visibility nodes should change that, but I still wonder why Bioware put them there in the first place.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Zwerkules, 26 mars 2012 - 03:04 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Zwerkules wrote...

Edit: I made an area with the Bioware interior tileset and used the homes groups. Even in the latest version of the set file the visibility entries are still there and this makes all rooms next to those groups visible. Removing the visibility nodes should change that, but I still wonder why Bioware put them there in the first place.

Could you make a fix for that? I would like to add it into my patch project.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               

wyldhunt1 wrote...

What is the easiest way to edit the path/visibility nodes?
I don't do very much cc stuff, so I'm not sure which tools are best.
Was Rolo correct, that we have to edit the set manually with a gff editor?

Velmar's TSC which works inside of 3dsmax.  That Set editor b85 is way outdated, and actually deletes/changes data related to any tileset created after 1.67 (actually, maybe even further back) that uses features of tilesets that the set editor does not understand. 

Pathnodes in particular, it does NOT recognize any of the stuff added to tilesets a while back.  Grass options, (being able to change texture of same, being able to allow/disallow growing etc), pathnodes that use lower case versions, door visibility nodes, other stuff too.  I can't remember what all the bugs are.

Velmar's TSC does NOT have those issues, although it does have issues of it's own.  1) It requires use of 3dsmax.  2) It does not allow you to create new groups inside the tool, even though that was in the plans and buttons exist, the scripting bit was never completed.  

However, it was used to create the tileset.set file for TNO/Castle Rural Exterior.  It allows you to work with tilesets of any size, it will allow you to pick a tile in the listing and load it directly into 3dsmax, save it, or delete it from the .set.  It will allow you to set all three path related nodes, pathnode, visibility node, AND Door Visibility Node.  It also allows you to mass create minimaps for the entire set, or any range of tiles you choose to work with.  (However, to do this, you do have to run the minimap option at least twice, once for tiles, and once for groups).

There are many other very useful features inside that toolset from velmar. 

One slight issue is that it does NOT autoload when max starts, and you have to manually run the starting script for it.  In fact, you have to do that twice, once to initially load it, then close the tsc, then run the script a second time.  I don't know why this is required, but otherwise it may crash the TSC and/or max.

CTP used the TSC for a HUGE portion of the work we did with managing tiles in a given set.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               

Zwerkules wrote...

Yesterday I looked through the CEP tilesets to find one that had a 2x2 homes group and found the city interior tileset which is a copy of Bioware's interior tilesets with additions. The 2x2 homes groups is no addition to the tileset though. It also existst in the original tileset.
What is really strange is that the path nodes are correct, but the tiles also all have a visibility node A.
I have no idea why Bioware added that visibility node. Those visibility entries in the set file make it possible to see what's on the other side of a wall, even though there isn't even a door in it.

I looked at the first version of the set file I found. Maybe in later versions this was changed. I haven't checked that yet.

Edit: I made an area with the Bioware interior tileset and used the homes groups. Even in the latest version of the set file the visibility entries are still there and this makes all rooms next to those groups visible. Removing the visibility nodes should change that, but I still wonder why Bioware put them there in the first place.

Bioware performed a mass "add" of the visibility node, at one point.  They also DEFAULT to pathnode for visibility node.  And Visibility is NOT "Door Visibilty" they are separate entries for each of those.   With the option to have a different visibiilty node, you give the creator of the tile the ability to hide things in spots.  

Visibility also covers ranged weapon blocking.  It's intention was to allow you to shoot over/through an object like a fence, which MIGHT have a proper visibility of "A", but a path node of "C" to block you from walking right throiugh the fence.  However, you SHOULD be able to shoot an arrow or magic attack over the fence.  If the Visibility node is C, you can't shoot across it.

The lower case nodes were all added for a specific tileset, Chandigar's Aztec Exterior.  Although, Chandigar never went back in and adjusted his tileset to actually USE the new lower case pathnodes that were created by Bioware for him.  There may have been a few added at the same time for other reasons as well, but the patch that added the lower case pathnodes, was specifically aimed at that particular tileset.

There are reasons for those features to exist, the issue is whether or not they were setup correctly for each tile.  In a large number of cases, most particularly with any tileset created by the community, those features are NOT enabled correctly.  If the community author used b085, then most definitely the .set file is warped/trashed to the point that it will require manual re-entry of all the missing/corrupted data.


P.S.  Please also refer to the final post on Page one of this thread. (at least on my machine, this particular post is the first on page 2, and the last post on page 1 was also by me)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Bannor Bloodfist, 26 mars 2012 - 04:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

The lower case nodes were all added for a specific tileset, Chandigar's Aztec Exterior.  Although, Chandigar never went back in and adjusted his tileset to actually USE the new lower case pathnodes that were created by Bioware for him.  There may have been a few added at the same time for other reasons as well, but the patch that added the lower case pathnodes, was specifically aimed at that particular tileset.

I came across this tidbit reading one of your old messages from the old CTP forums at HMC a few weeks ago as well.  Do you know any more to the backstory behind that?  It's hard to deny some of those pathnodes would be perfect for Aztec and some (like pathnode "h") I couldn't easily imagine anywhere else except in a tileset like Aztec.

Just wondering.  Chandigar was one of the most talented original geometry modelers in the history of NWN so I'm sure he was on Bioware's radar.  Was Bioware thinking about doing DLC with a similar theme, similar style, or did someone at Bioware just like Aztec and decided to throw them in?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 26 mars 2012 - 05:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               

OldTimeRadio wrote...

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

The lower case nodes were all added for a specific tileset, Chandigar's Aztec Exterior.  Although, Chandigar never went back in and adjusted his tileset to actually USE the new lower case pathnodes that were created by Bioware for him.  There may have been a few added at the same time for other reasons as well, but the patch that added the lower case pathnodes, was specifically aimed at that particular tileset.

I came across this tidbit reading one of your old messages from the old CTP forums at HMC a few weeks ago as well.  Do you know any more to the backstory behind that?  It's hard to deny some of those pathnodes would be perfect for Aztec and some (like pathnode "h") I couldn't easily imagine anywhere else except in a tileset like Aztec.

Just wondering.  Chandigar was one of the most talented original geometry modelers in the history of NWN so I'm sure he was on Bioware's radar.  Was Bioware thinking about doing DLC with a similar theme, similar style, or did someone at Bioware just like Aztec and decided to throw them in?

I think DLC was always on Bioware's radar.  Was it already in the works back then?  I have no specific information to give you.  As to why Bioware added them, Yes, there was more than one individual at Bioware that liked the Aztec tileset, and Chandigar had been requesting help with the pathnodes not working for that particular tileset.  Bioware, back then, really cared about the CC community and adding additional pathnodes/visibility nodes, and door nodes was not all that difficult to do for them.  They also greatly wanted to encourage him (and others) with his work.


Other folks from the community at large were able to get specific patches into the game as well.  Most of those were wanted by more than one individual, and when the "cry for help" was large enough, and the job was not too terribly difficult, those options/patches were added.  As time progressed, and staffing related to NWN dropped, well, patches became less likely to add major things, most especially engine changes.  There was a large effort to get the PW stuff working, but that dropped off, there was a huge effort to get the DLC options working but Atari shot that in the knees and completely stopped those efforts. 

At that time, Bioware had already largely moved on to other games (Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc).  When Atari blocked all future DLC's, well, it all died at once.  If I remember correctly, and I may be off by a one or two, there were Five separate DLC projects in the works at the same time as WCoC.  Most of them did NOT require major rewrites of code and did not add all that much new content (other than boss type npc's), but WCoC was already nearly complete and most of the rework required to get it working was already completed in the background by Bioware for 1.69  before Atari fired off the shotgun.  It didn't take much more coding work to get WCoC and all of it's related content out the door.  When permission was given to finalize it, and release it, there was a very limited time window to get that work done.  Fortunately, most of the work was accomplished.  Some bugs remained in TNO in particular, and in some of the other content as well, but most of it was already complete, the final stages were just bug testing the mod itself.  IE, dialog testing, quest testing, that sort of thing.

I think most of us know the final patch 1.69 was a HUGE effort, lots of features/additions/changes were introduced by WCoC.  Horses, and TNO being only two of them.  There were background engine changes, but they were fairly minor changes that could be accomplished without a complete re-write of the entire system.  Whenever they could, they increased mem usage ability, (increasing sizes of different 2da fields for example) but anything that would require an engine rewrite got blocked as Bioware no longer had the original programmers involved with NWN around or available and did not have the resources, or cash flow to warrant any further changes.  The DLC projects WOULD have increased their abilities to continue to develop for NWN 1, but Atari said no.  Doors closed.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               Thanks for the information and history, Bannor! 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Zwerkules]

               

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

Bioware performed a mass "add" of the visibility node, at one point.  They also DEFAULT to pathnode for visibility node.  And Visibility is NOT "Door Visibilty" they are separate entries for each of those.   With the option to have a different visibiilty node, you give the creator of the tile the ability to hide things in spots.  

Visibility also covers ranged weapon blocking.  It's intention was to allow you to shoot over/through an object like a fence, which MIGHT have a proper visibility of "A", but a path node of "C" to block you from walking right throiugh the fence.  However, you SHOULD be able to shoot an arrow or magic attack over the fence.  If the Visibility node is C, you can't shoot across it.

I wasn't wondering why Bioware added visibility nodes, but why they added visibility nodes 'A' to each of those tiles in the homes tile groups. As you said, if there are no visibility nodes added, the default is the pathnode. The pathnodes for thoses tiles are all correct, but the addition of the visibility node 'A' to the tiles makes no sense to me. There are no doors or fences or anything else there which the PC should be able to look through.
Those visibility nodes cause other rooms to appear which should still be hidden. So I was wondering why Bioware added those 'A' visibility nodes to those specific tiles, not why they added visibility nodes in general.

I know that visibility nodes and door visibility nodes are two different things. My post about the door visibility nodes was in reply to the posts by Henesua and Rolo while the other posts where about the problem of the OP nwnsmith which has to do with the visibility nodes in the homes tile groups in the city interior tileset.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Zwerkules, 26 mars 2012 - 08:26 .