Say no to light!

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

henesua wrote...

The visible ball of light is the flare. Removing the flare does not affect the illumination. You should try this out. I think you'll understand better what the improvement is.

To sum it all up most simply: the flare is removed while the illumination remains.

ok tested, modified fx_flame looks promising, the flare effect really does look weird on tileset light sources
I do agree this is serious improvement and adds immersion, so will include in CP then.

however i was unable to modify the fx_placeable.mdl, even decompiled default file crashes toolset and Oseryn's code is also unmodified model content. So how to remove the flare from placeables? Had anyone else succeded in this?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 26 janvier 2013 - 02:17 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tiberius_Morguhn]

               I did - here is the mdl file decompiled with flare removed (fx_placeable01.mdl) :

#MAXMODEL ASCII
# model: FX_PLACEABLE01
filedependancy FX_PLACEABLE01.max
newmodel FX_PLACEABLE01
setsupermodel FX_PLACEABLE01 NULL
classification EFFECT
setanimationscale 1
#MAXGEOM  ASCII
beginmodelgeom FX_PLACEABLE01
node dummy FX_PLACEABLE01
  parent NULL
endnode
node light AuroraLight01
  parent FX_PLACEABLE01
  ambientonly 0
  shadow 1
  isdynamic 0
  affectdynamic 1
  lightpriority 4
  fadingLight 1
  flareradius 0
  position 0 0 0
  orientation 0 0 0 0
  radius 10
  color 0 0 0
  shadowradius 15
  verticaldisplacement 3
endnode
endmodelgeom FX_PLACEABLE01
donemodel FX_PLACEABLE01

Note that this is working fine in my override and removes flare for all placeables that have them.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Tiberius_Morguhn, 26 janvier 2013 - 09:21 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               thanks Tiberius_Morguhn, Ive tested it and it works however, I had right about the placeable light

henesua wrote...

The visible ball of light is the flare. Removing the flare does not affect the illumination. You should try this out. I think you'll understand better what the improvement is.

To sum it all up most simply: the flare is removed while the illumination remains.

my tests indicated that the placeable settings adds only the flare, there is not any other light added with it, so using a "game engine" modification to get rid of something you can easily get rid off via 2da seems to overkill to me.

Ive placed flame, lamp post and candelabra into total dark area. With the modified fx_placeable.mdl this was removed as Oseryn promised, but while flame and candelabra still had some lights, the lamp post doesn't which is serious problem. Seems that lamp post is light source free and the only light makes the flare. The light setting in 2da adds only flare, any illumination it adds comes from flare, removing it results in lost of this illumination.

(Or maybe Tiberius modified the fx_placeable in wrong way, I don't know...)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 27 janvier 2013 - 02:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

               ShaDoOoW, I believe you ae mistaken with regards to the flare and light. When the flare is removed, a light still remains.

Which placeables are talking you about?

I assume that the "Lamp Post" you are referring to is the vanilla placeable at index 73.
73   LampPost   5715   PLC_K01   6   0.003989   0.010826   3.87363   22   1   0   ****   default   1   

Place it.
Turn off static
Set State to Activated.

Copy it.
Set State to Deactivated.


Note that both have ambient light, but only one is animated as being turned on. Also no flares visible.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 27 janvier 2013 - 03:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               You don't understand what I meant in the initial post

but the placeable light/illumunation is driven by the 2da (LightColor   LightOffsetX   LightOffsetY   LightOffsetZ) so i see no reason to disable it entirely which might maybe look good with candelabra but what about placeable fire?

this 2da setting only adds flare as I thought, there is no other light from this, I tested this on a placeable with no ambient light to be sure

And since there is no other light than the flare, whats the reason to remove flare via model modification? I mean - for a player use this is great, it will work anytime even when playing CEP module which don't allow overriding the placeable.2da via override folder.

But for general use, such as CP, this is not good, if a builder would make a placeable with no ambient light using flare, then with this modification, there wouldn't be any light. As seen with LampPost placeable set to static, assume there is a PW out there using static LampPosts. With this overide, these lamps wouldn't provide any light at all.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 27 janvier 2013 - 07:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

                Allow me to upload a better example. Two screenshots. One with light off. The other with light on. Same placeable. Light is turned on and off via script. 2DA line for the Lamp has not been changed.


Lights Off



Lights On
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 27 janvier 2013 - 07:42 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Master Jax]

               Ok, now I am decidedly confused! As I understand, a static placeable shouldn't be able to cast light, am I right? I have been noticing they never cast light on any of my modules, even if there is a flame in them, like a lit brazier or campfire. I double checked lots of things, like them not being the no-ambient light variants. I also made it a point to see this in a non-hak module for testing, and went as far as to remove the override folder files. It was as clean as it goes. And no light on static placeables. So, I made one to be usable and activated it in-game. First off, the flare was present despite the placeable being de-activated (My override was empty, remember? None of the tweaks mentioned in this thread), and when activated, the flame came up in the brazier. However, I didn't notice any dynamic lights or shadows being created. Is this normal in exterior areas, or is something else amiss?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Master Jax]

               So, I placed some activated torches in a module. They were not only useable, but also activated. However, when I went in-game, despite the torches being lit, there was no ambient light coming from them until I actually clicked on them. Is this normal? Shouldn't placeables set to useable and activated cast light even if the character hasn't activated them? And, are static objects simply unable to cast any light? I hope someone can throw some light on this. 0__0
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               Placeable light sources not set to "static" seems to be bugged since day one and maybe it´s just something to ignore or to accept. I know these details can be annoying but dynamic lights in general have issues. Believe me i experimented so much with them and once i have it working correctly the next try i lose it again. I´m working on a reworked default placeable collection and light sources are on my list so once i´m there i share them independantly from the others.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               huzza for the double post ! :innocent:
               
               

               

                     Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 11 mai 2013 - 12:04 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Master Jax]

               Thanks for sharing, Baba! Well, I guess I will have to keep experimenting as you have mentioned 0~0
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <blinking...>

Static placeables can certainly cast light. I added light nodes above some of the treasure hoard placeables for the Dec CCC. And they do have bu... Er, quirks.

One is that the player must get close before they turn on, perhaps a function of the radius of the light.

Best thing I can say is to experiment with them, including the dynamic settings.

For your torches, have you tried spawning then off and scripting them on?

<...in the glare>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Master Jax]

               Well, I wasn't placing MY torches per se, Rolo, I was just baffled by placeables not casting any light while static. These were form all of the modules I have in my collection, rather than any of my own doing. It just seemed like an odd thing. For example, lightposts do cast light when static, but not braziers or any of the camp-related fires. Not even flames. I just think it looks really odd... 0__0
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <patting his pockets...>

Well, there's lights and there's lights. And even the lights have very different options.
I'd have to dig into them to tell you what's going on, and I don't have time just now :-/ Sorry about that.
But I do know they can cast lights and even shadows. My gut feeling is all those objects you mentioned have pseudo lights to ease the stress on the engine.

Pull out the light node from the medium treasure I mentioned (page 2, I think) and compare it to the light nodes that don't behave. Also look at what the light is linked to. It may be a case of it working only if linked to the base or a dummy linked to the base.

<...looking for a light>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               If I remember correctly, there are three choices...

1- Static < Checked "..means you can do bopkis with them even through script"
2- Usable <Checked ".. means you can do whatever and is usable by players in game"
3- Both Unchecked "..is like static, unusable by players but can be manipulated by scripts"

Hope that helps clear some things.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 13 mai 2013 - 07:14 .