Author Topic: Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?  (Read 1942 times)

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2015, 08:12:51 am »


               


Could I ask you to introduce new classes/races/subraces/domains as well?


You could use Eye of Gruumsh and the other class(disciple/monk of sth) that was partially developed by Bioware (which shadooow discovered and included in his patch) or even include some classes from PRC (those would need to be balanced though).




 


I'd have to look at Eye of Gruumsh and anything else potentially being added, class-wise.  It would definitely be a lower priority.


 


What new races/subraces would even be added?  The main problem I have with those is that they're usually code for "I want more power!  Er, I mean I think we need a Half-Orc subrace that gains 4 str at the cost of 2 wis/2 cha.  Balanced."


 


By domains you mean cleric domains?  What would even be added?


 




Truly its not that you actually need any henchmen in any OCs. Within 5 minutes of any OC game launch I see the inevitable "how to solo" thread in a forum ~ LOL. It was true of NWN (1 and 2) BG (1 -3) KOTOR and Dragon Age... and many others..




 


I wasn't even trying to spark a discussion about soloing, I was more wondering what particular benefit an arcane caster would be considered "essential" for compared to a fighter, rogue, or cleric (or whatever).  I mean, if the arcane caster does nothing but summon (more powerful) creatures and snipe with a crossbow, I'm guessing people wouldn't be thrilled (even if the mage's summons were so powerful they were better than a fighter).  They probably expect AoE spells and/or IGMS and/or things like dispels/spell breaches.  But what ratio?


 




This was in fact one of the single criticisms of HoTU and frankly the loudest criticisms of SoU.




 


Lack of a pure cleric/mage specifically or lack of companions overall?


 




As I suggested (though other may have many better ideas)...




 


If anything I'd be more concerned about writing/integrating them well enough than the idea itself.  Like rogueknight said, I wouldn't want a situation where a default companion is better lore/story/dialogue wise but people feel compelled to bring a more powerful "added" companion.


 




HotU is where the basic crafting was added (weapons, armor), and that might need a bit of focus in order to make sense in the module.  For example, if PC crafted weapons were created with an item property (such as an on-hit) - one that would not be part of the forge upgrades - then PCs in chapter 2 and 3 can upgrade the weapons they crafted to add more variety.




 


I'm not sure if it's even worth trying to make crafting good/useful, frankly.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Lilura

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2015, 01:53:59 am »


               

Nathyrra could be tweaked to level properly as wizard, I'm sure. And Linu is already a pure Cleric. Another idea would be to introduce hireable mercs in Lith My'athar, who wouldn't need wordy dialogue and personalities; just heavy payment.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2015, 02:29:24 am »


               


I'd have to look at Eye of Gruumsh and anything else potentially being added, class-wise.  It would definitely be a lower priority.


 


What new races/subraces would even be added?  The main problem I have with those is that they're usually code for "I want more power!  Er, I mean I think we need a Half-Orc subrace that gains 4 str at the cost of 2 wis/2 cha.  Balanced."


 


By domains you mean cleric domains?  What would even be added?




I dont think this is good idea. Player can always install my patch which give him access to the Eye of Gruumsh and Shou Disciple. Or he can instal PRC which give him access to biggest custom character building selection ever. No need to add it into campaign, unless it would be needed for a plot like Purple Dragon Knight was.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2015, 05:19:03 pm »


               I think this is a great idea, but not sold on requiring HAKs for it.

If you want a graphical overhaul, that could be handled with a Patch HAK side project. Basically you'd be using standard assets, and tell your players that if they want the HD version, all they need do is install the optional Patch HAK to facelift the whole thing.

One word on making the game harder: I think that will only appeal to a certain type of gamer. Most RPGs are easy because most players have more fun when they feel successful. If this overhaul is to have a wide appeal, I think you'll want to be careful about making it too hard.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_rjshae

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2015, 09:14:09 pm »


               

*spoiler*


 


I have a little oddball suggestion:


 


Once the PC reaches Lith My'athar, I don't believe there's a cleric/druid henchman available. Hence:


 


In the Ale Gardens is a svirfneblin being forced to participate in a drinking game. What if the gnome is actually a defrocked cleric (or druid) of Segojan Earthcaller who came from fallen Blingdenstone? He was on a pilgrimage seeking penance to regain favor with his deity, when he was captured and enslaved. (He has lost his priestly spells and is psychologically shattered by being outcast.) If the PC is able to gain his freedom and aid him in his quest for penance, then the svirfneblin could join as an angst ridden henchman cleric who abhors alcohol.


 


*shrug*



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2015, 09:40:09 pm »


               


I dont think this is good idea.




 


Interesting points, something to consider.


 


 




I think this is a great idea, but not sold on requiring HAKs for it.


If you want a graphical overhaul, that could be handled with a Patch HAK side project. Basically you'd be using standard assets, and tell your players that if they want the HD version, all they need do is install the optional Patch HAK to facelift the whole thing.




 


How would that work with something like, say, Project Q?


 




One word on making the game harder: I think that will only appeal to a certain type of gamer. Most RPGs are easy because most players have more fun when they feel successful. If this overhaul is to have a wide appeal, I think you'll want to be careful about making it too hard.




 


The goal isn't to make it nightmarishly hard or anything...the default game is simply a snoozefest 98% of the time.  Trying to not make things too hard was a huge part of the design for Siege of the Heavens, for example -- nerfed a lot of stuff because while I could beat it easily, I didn't think most people could.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jfoxtail

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2015, 06:21:40 pm »


               

Companions overall were the complaint...


 


SOU : Barbarian Sorcerer/Fighter  and the Dwarven Cleric/Thief...  ineffective and unloved.


 


HOTU : Drow (female romantic interest) Thief / Assassin / Mage ... ineffective and illegal character build as I recall... but loved.


 


HOTU : Fighter Weaponmaster. Legit build ... effective.


 


If ~ as you say you enhance the A and increase a henchmen slot ~ I a pure caster Mage and pure caster Cleric would in fact be "effective within the context of the game". Even with Tony K AI henchmen are legitimately better.


 


More to the point roleplay wise (not just combat) party choices of :


 


Thiefling Fighter weaponmaster.


Drow Rogue Assassin (ignore the mage part)


Kobald Bard / RDD 


 


additionally


 


Pure Cleric


Pure Mage


 


...Would give the protagonist the ability to create the archtype party of 4 (Fighter type, Mage Type, Rogue Type, Cleric Type) regardless of what class they optioned for. 


 


Simply pick and choose 3 of the above.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Lilura

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2015, 01:23:00 am »


               

Hah! I love Xanos. Normally I tell him to level as Barb, though (he takes Cleave at ninth level).



               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2015, 11:09:39 pm »


               

How would that work with something like, say, Project Q?




It wouldn't. Project Q isn't setup as a Patch HAK.


While you can extend the game with a Patch HAK, this method is better applied to overriding content like Zwerkules did with his Facelift. I also did this by making use of Zwerkules' stuff and adding much more stuff.