Author Topic: Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?  (Read 2130 times)

Legacy_Lilura

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2015, 11:10:12 pm »


               

Original Campaign needs the additions that were excluded when the whole plot and features were changed.


 


I'm currently plodding through the OC, and it seems to me addressing it's fundamental flaws is gonna take infinitely more time and effort than thugging out HotU (hopefully I haven't been too critical of the OC, I haven't yet commented on the things I like about it, like Helm's Hold coming up..). But then, if the community is happy to undertake a more ambitious project - implementing things like the "madness mechanic" - I say great!


 


To Magical Master:


 


Do you think any overhaul should be packaged into an exe, so it can just be downloaded and double-clicked to install (optional for manual, too)? I think that would help bring it to the masses, people also don't blink at large downloads these days - overhauls for many current gen RPGs are massive. Just a thought..



               
               

               
            

Legacy_PracticalKat

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2015, 07:41:48 am »


               Not having read all the above posts, I for one would definitely be interested. I went from the OC to fan - made modules, and the latter are so much better! Bring it on ☺

I like Insane difficulty, but NPC damage dialled down to 140%.  More strength to your arm!!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2015, 08:17:19 am »


               


it seems to me addressing it's fundamental flaws is gonna take infinitely more time and effort than thugging out HotU




 


Indeed.  And time is the main factor -- only have so much time and already have far too much I want to do.  Right now I'm feeling inclined to say that *this* remake is already up in the air and thus worrying about the OC is rather moot.  Cross that bridge when we come to it.


 




Do you think any overhaul should be packaged into an exe, so it can just be downloaded and double-clicked to install (optional for manual, too)?




 


Well then.  That's a bit trickier.  I admit I hadn't thought about it much and figured the person would just download the mod and play that.  But many people (and new people especially) won't have the "generic" hak files (stuff like Project Q that's universally used).  Doing some kind of automatic install would, at a minimum, require permission from the authors from any CC I might use, though.


 


Also, I have absolutely no idea how to make an exe that would do that, so would need to learn (I know people have done similar stuff in the past so clearly it's doable).


 


Along those lines, if we'd be doing a custom install anyway, that would make it easier to include a custom hak if some feats were going to be changed.  Hmm.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Lilura

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2015, 08:59:19 am »


               

I think you should probably stop calling it "a remake", it's just a combat overhaul possibly with a facelift right? (ie, a mod)

http://en.wikipedia....deo_game_remake
http://en.wikipedia....eo_game_remakes


A Neverwinter Nights "remake" would be like remaking HotU in Electron or DA: Origins engines (and I don't think you want that, do you? That would be awful..).


Terms like "combat overhaul" or "revamp" and "tactics mod" are probably more accurate.


What I had in mind was something similar to Sword Coast Stratagems for Baldur's Gate, RAVAge for Origins, Co8 for Temple of Elemental Evil (though that's restoration, too), Full Combat Rebalance for The Witcher etc.


Akkei's Orcs: The Awakening of Arak-Hur uses an exe for installation, the content of which can also be unzipped and installed manually. It contains haks, but yeah, he obviously would have sought permission from the hak-maker.


The reason I bring up the exe is: think of teh casuals. They install NWN GoG, apply the cumulative 1.69 patch, they are probably not gonna want to manually install a bunch of haks and who knows what else just to try a combat overhaul for an old game.


Give them an exe to grab from Mod DB/Nexus/Vault whatevs, and people are much more likely to play it (manual option must always be avail for those who distrust exe or just don't like them). Project Q would be great (or even the Creatures override and a few other facelifty things would be great, too), but if you can't get the permission they aren't necessary, that was just icing on the cake.


The main thing is that the combat isn't a joke anymore.


 


I would put the OC on the backburner, it's got too many issues. It needs a full redesign and restoration, imo. Probably take years.. HotU arguably only has one glaring weakness, one which - looking at your A Peremptory Summons and SotH - you'd be qualified to address, given the time and more encouragement from the community.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2015, 10:10:27 am »


               


I think you should probably stop calling it "a remake", it's just a combat overhaul possibly with a facelift right? (ie, a mod)




True, it's not Black Mesa, changed title to "revamp" instead.


 


Combat overhaul, AI improvement, minor graphical facelift, bug fixes (there are several, mainly related to the Knower of Names and romance), item overhaul, likely more companions.


 


One concern I do have about simply allowing the original campaign companions to go into Act 2 and Act 3 is that they won't have any ground comments (aka, I hit a trigger on the ground and say something) and they won't talk during a conversation.  So either they'd be silent or I'd have to try to add dialogue.


 




The reason I bring up the exe is: think of teh casuals. They install NWN GoG, apply the cumulative 1.69 patch, they are probably not gonna want to manually install a bunch of haks and who knows what else just to try a combat overhaul for an old game.




 


Oh, I know.  Like I said, originally I was just thinking they'd copy/paste a single mod file, wasn't considering the new players who wouldn't have the haks.  Something to keep in mind.


 




Project Q would be great (or even the Creatures override and a few other facelifty things would be great, too), but if you can't get the permission they aren't necessary, that was just icing on the cake.




 


The problem isn't getting permission to use Q, the potential problem would be getting permission to bundle it in an exe.  Version control might be a concern in that regard, don't want to overwrite a newer version of something in Q.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_werelynx

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2015, 12:12:44 pm »


               


Also, I have absolutely no idea how to make an exe that would do that, so would need to learn (I know people have done similar stuff in the past so clearly it's doable).




 


Go to your "utils" folder in your main game folder and find nwcontbuild.exe '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2015, 10:02:08 pm »


               

Pfft, makefiles or bust!


 


Thanks.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_werelynx

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2015, 03:33:11 pm »


               

Could I ask you to introduce new classes/races/subraces/domains as well?


You could use Eye of Gruumsh and the other class(disciple/monk of sth) that was partially developed by Bioware (which shadooow discovered and included in his patch) or even include some classes from PRC (those would need to be balanced though).



               
               

               
            

Legacy_WhiZard

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2015, 10:29:20 pm »


               

The unimplemented BioWare classes were known about even before the 1.69 release.  The old, old forums had speculation about when BioWare would finish them.  Unfortunately, the premium modules did not bring in enough zots (as George Zoeller would say). 



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2015, 11:50:35 pm »


               


The unimplemented BioWare classes were known about even before the 1.69 release.  The old, old forums had speculation about when BioWare would finish them.  Unfortunately, the premium modules did not bring in enough zots (as George Zoeller would say). 




Of course you and your buddy The Krit knew that even before NWN was released. Yet you kept that for yourselves. Of course that those two classess were planned and then canceled was known, but I was there all that time and nobody before me actually found out these two classes are from 80% implemented and hardcoded in engine and all whats needed is to unlock them. Yes those speculations was there, yet nobody found how before me. PRC who had these classes inside them implemented them from scratch using different methods (like creature weapon to simlate unarmed dmg for shou and some feature didnt worked there (gruumsh dodge ac).


 


I dont really care that much, I know that I know, peoples like you will always claim that they knew it/did it long time before. I dont care. What is more insteresting is that even after the discovery of these two classess, there is no mention about that in NWN wiki. I thought, that since this is actually standard content you or The Krit will write an article about it. But I guess you are ignoring that on purpose since it was me who brought that info.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_WhiZard

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2015, 02:27:31 am »


               


Of course you and your buddy The Krit knew that even before NWN was released. Yet you kept that for yourselves.




 


I don't see how discussing this on the old old forums was "keeping this to ourselves."  BioWare never gave an official response as to their release, and since the patches were still coming, these classes did seem on the horizon.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_WhiZard

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2015, 02:54:32 am »


               


 I thought, that since this is actually standard content you or The Krit will write an article about it. But I guess you are ignoring that on purpose since it was me who brought that info.




 


If the content requires 2da editing, or anything else that would be present in a hak, then it is not "standard content," as one must customize the game to implement it.  But, I am not sure why you are constantly focusing on the Krit and I as being your two main obstacles and when questioned about it you give these answers:


 



 


Actually, it seems to me from your responds that you fixed all issues I am working on already yourself long time before I even thought of them (never used horses, learned these issues from Proleric's guide). Same with any knowhow I happen to share on these forums. Which is not just you, seems you all knew/fixed that already lol.



 


I understand sarcasm and hyperboles, but what I do not understand is the way you go from specifically targeting me in some places, and then saying I am just a member of a huge crowd in others.  Is there a specific argument you have against me? Or do you need an adversary just to say that you have made it through significant opposition?


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jfoxtail

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2015, 06:01:40 pm »


               

Back to the main point ~ gentlemen please kindly retire to your corners. <cheers>


 


----


 


Quote" What do you mean by "need an arcane henchmen" in this case, though?  I mean, you could easily solo HotU with a pure fighter or pure rogue if you wanted.  Which sort of becomes a general question: what "should" an arcane companion provide?  Summons?  Buffs?  AoE?  Single target nukes?  A bit of everything?"


 


---


 


Truly its not that you actually need any henchmen in any OCs. Within 5 minutes of any OC game launch I see the inevitable "how to solo" thread in a forum ~ LOL. It was true of NWN (1 and 2) BG (1 -3) KOTOR and Dragon Age... and many others..


 


But I think that is the point. "Tactics mods" and game challenge enhancements appeal to a certain type of player. Especially those that seem to be driven by the need to solo on "insane level". 


 


I would not play a tactics mod HoTU solo just because I could. I am not one of those type players. I suspect there are more of "my type" but I have no proof just because I say so...


 


I would play a tactics mod HoTU game if my "classic D&D party was robust" and contained some banter / interaction that was mature, witty, potentially even "adult" with the proper disclosures.


 


The fun of community mods and OCs in my opinion lies in the quality of the "immersion as a function of logic of the situation" and the "henchmen/companions either contributing to that immersion or being at paradox to it".... the paradox henchman can be very very interesting if handled correctly.


 


I refer you to your other project... Aielund. Aielund is so great not "just" because of its level span 1 - 36 ; but because Robert Black, Criosa, The Dragon, The Barbarian shield maiden, the Druidess, the Ranger, the Cleric were so well written and provided any character build the potential "classic party" of the D&D genre...Fighter - Mage - Cleric - Thief. 


 


Complimentary balance and dialogue... NPCs having their own motivations make a great game.


 


So in HoTU we had a Bard/RDD that "could fill in for mage". Nathy who ineffectively could fill in for "mage or thief". Valen who could fill in for Fighter effectively. 


 


No pure divine caster/ cleric - no pure mage unless the PC antagonist was one.


 


My suggestion is merely that if re-tooling consider the above. 


 


This was in fact one of the single criticisms of HoTU and frankly the loudest criticisms of SoU.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jfoxtail

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2015, 06:13:29 pm »


               

As I suggested (though other may have many better ideas)...


 


A Cleric of Waukeen the merchant god trapped in the Underdark by events ; commanding by divine mission to open new epic markets he or she is suddenly involved in the antagonists plight if only to profit from events...


 


A Mage seeking a drow gem as his/her final magical "ingredient" to complete their research into casting Melf's Acid Rainstorm ~ trapped by events... reluctant to join...


 


etc 



               
               

               
            

Legacy_WhiZard

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Considering Doing a Revamp of HotU -- Thoughts?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2015, 01:08:31 am »


               

HotU is where the basic crafting was added (weapons, armor), and that might need a bit of focus in order to make sense in the module.  For example, if PC crafted weapons were created with an item property (such as an on-hit) - one that would not be part of the forge upgrades - then PCs in chapter 2 and 3 can upgrade the weapons they crafted to add more variety.