Vaei - Additional Animations: Upgrading to 1.69 Compliance

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

Calvinthesneak wrote...

What would it take to make these http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=6150 animations 1.69 compliant. I believe they were released sometime after 1.64 and before 1.69.

Regardless the base animation files included (a_fa, a_ba_non_combat) do not contain support for cloaks. Simply copying the relevant custom portion of the text out of the mdl and pasting it into the 1.69 versions didn't produce very satisfactory results. I know nothing about 3d animation per se.

Anyone willing to help or at least explain what else I'd have to do to get them working fully with 1.69?

The biggest problem with these is, as you pointed out, the lack of cloak support. For some of the animations - jumping - it wouldn't be too difficult to animate the cloaks. However, it IS very labor intensive and time consuming.

You would need to start with Vaei's versions of a_fa and a_ba_non_combat and eliminate all but the anims Vaei added from the files using a text editor (I use textpad).

Next you would have to verify that the numbering for Vaei's anims are not the same as any of the anims used in the 1.69 versions of the files.

Open the 1.69 a_fa and a_ba_non_combat files in 3ds and using NWMax IMPORT the anims from Vaei's models into the 1.69 versions.

Now comes the fun part  You'll need to go through Vaei's anims just about frame-by-frame and set the rotation keys for the cloak manually. Make sure you only adjust the rotation and NOT the position. Also, be sure to SET the keys for each part moved in the frame before moving onto the next part or next frame.

Just to give you a timeframe - so you know what to expect - it took me two weeks to add cloak support for the Demonblade pheno (available soon in Project Q 1.5 - pardon the shameless plug )
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 11 novembre 2011 - 10:13 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               I follow you right until the part where you import them into 3ds..  I have previously (2-3 years ago) cut n' paste the anims out of Vaei's animations and plunked them straight into the 1.69 anims of the same name.  Sadly that was all I did.  I have no idea what rotation and adjustment of the keys requires (I'm a programmer not an animator).

I gathered it was a complex job, I think it might very well be beyond my skills, I have a hard enough time opening a model and adjusting anything.

PS.  The cloak support for demonblade sounds great, can't wait to see it, I'll hold off on Ragnarok's anims to get demonblade with cloak support.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               NWMax has a nice little feature that allows you to import anims into an aurorabase that you have selected. Just click on the aurorabase of the model you are editing then go to the MDL Loading tab in NWMax. Select the model whose anims you wish to import, then under "options", check the radio button for "Import Anims Only". 

Yes, the work is very labor intensive and requires a lot of time - set rotation keys, run anim, tweak keys, etc. Eventually, you'll get something that serviceable. There used to be some tutorials on the Vault that covered animation - I'd start with those.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               So lets see if I got this straight.  I take Vaei's existing a_fa, and a_ba_noncombat and remove all the default anims attached to them, leaving just the customxxxx anims in it?   Sort of confused about what I leave in the MDL text file.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               Leave just the custom animation Vaei added otherwise you'll overwrite the 1.69 defaults with whatever Vaei has in there and probably lose cloak support for everything.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               ok, so my work will be two fold.  One, removing any existing custom anims that got left in 1.69 (there are a few WCoC anims leftover), then cutting/pasting the custom anims out of Vaei's old anims, and then importing them into 1.69 animations.  I will look at adding ninjaweaselman's anims (they use slot 11-20).

I will probably be asking for help when I get to the keyframes since I don't know animation procedure.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ragnarok_mr4]

               IIRC vaei's animations don't have cloak support.  In fact, I don't recall them even having the 1.69 cloak nodes defined in the supermodels.  If this is indeed the case, merging the animations in will result in stiffy cloaks when vaei's custom animations are called.

As for Weasel's RAS animations, again I'm not so sure about this after being away for so long, but I do recall them having cloak support since they were meant to be part of the core supermodel set and thus accessible to nearly all the avatars that used the core anims.

You need to be very careful in the supermodel chain, especially making sure that the node definitions are identical all the supermodels in the chain.  If not you can expect the animations to fail (at best) or NWN1 itself to belly-up and crash.

I hope this helps '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Calvinthesneak]

               Yes you're right on both counts for the animations sets Ragnarok.

I have no experience with animations so this is sorta like asking someone who's never programmed to write an entire scripting system.  What I'm trying to do is muddle through and add cloak support to Vaei's animations.....

Pstemarie's suggestions above make vague sort of sense to me, worse I can do is try.  I can hope someone else will do it, but that often doesn't work out.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               Ragz!! Welcome back old friend. Glad to see you're still around.

What you say about the stiffy cloaks is true, hence my previous comment about Calvin having to set the rotation and keys for them. Perhaps it would have been better - and clearer - if I'd just said animate them.

The procedure I've outlined above is the same procedure I used when I added cloak support for the demonblade pheno you designed Ragz. Now that I give this more thought perhaps it might be better to use a new phenotype for Vaei's animations like the ACP. All you would have to do is create new supermodels using the 1.69 puppets (with the cloak nodes), rename them, remove any animations, then import Vaei's animations in, and animate the cloaks.

I suppose if you want I might be able to find time over the next few days to make the supermodels. Who knows, maybe I'll even be inspired enough to animate the cloaks.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 13 novembre 2011 - 11:57 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               After reviewing the work required with Tom Banjo over at Project Q, Tom and I both agreed (at least from a Q perspective) that the easiest way to implement Vaei's animations would be to create a new phenotype for them.

Therefore, I decided to go forward with adding them for Project Q v1.5 (which we're hoping to release in time for X-Mas). The new phenotype only provides support for "normal-sized" characters, not large. However, all races and both sexes are supported. Access will be through the PC chat menu in the same way that the ACP is accessed in Q modules.

Cloak support is adequate except for the jumping and sleeping on side animations. I'll implement cloaks for these animations at a later date; although it might be better for the sleeping animation to just remove the cloak first.

Calvin, drop me a line to pstemarie@live.com and I'll be glad to send you the models.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 13 novembre 2011 - 01:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_AndarianTD]

               Good to see you again, Rags!

ragnarok_mr4 wrote...

As for Weasel's RAS animations, again I'm not so sure about this after being away for so long, but I do recall them having cloak support since they were meant to be part of the core supermodel set and thus accessible to nearly all the avatars that used the core anims.

I use an early separate release of the RAS in Sanctum of the Archmage, and can confirm that cloaks do in fact go stiff during the animations. That hasn't been an issue for me since there's not a lot of movement during the ones I use currently (standing and lying kiss and standing hug). If you test the dancing animations with someone wearing a cloak, though, it's very obvious.

The RAS was eventually released in Project Q, and it's possible that Weasel may have updated them there. I'm in the process of preparing a new release of the Sanctum modules to use Project Q, and when that's ready I won't need to use a standalone RAS hak any longer. I can check that out and report back if there's interest.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par AndarianTD, 13 novembre 2011 - 02:21 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_AndarianTD]

               

Pstemarie wrote...

After reviewing the work required with Tom Banjo over at Project Q, Tom and I both agreed (at least from a Q perspective) that the easiest way to implement Vaei's animations would be to create a new phenotype for them.

Therefore, I decided to go forward with adding them for Project Q v1.5 (which we're hoping to release in time for X-Mas). The new phenotype only provides support for "normal-sized" characters, not large. However, all races and both sexes are supported. Access will be through the PC chat menu in the same way that the ACP is accessed in Q modules.

If you don't mind, can we talk about which phenotype number you decide to use for it? I'd very much like to be able to use any new animations of this kind, but I already have several custom Sanctum phenos in use that I've had to move to avoid a conflict in my Q merge with the ACP animations. That was a  nightmare, and I'd like to try to avoid another pheno collision if possible.

Thanks! - Andarian
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__six]

               43 is what pste has used at present
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _six, 13 novembre 2011 - 02:21 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_henesua]

               This sounds promising, but I'm not sure how it will all work in Q. Given that Vaei's upgraded animations are likely to be added to another phenotype:
(1) will a player have to switch to that phenotype (sounds like 43) to take advantage of the upgraded animations by Vaei?
(2) will these animations require editing of clothing parts like robes and cloaks?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_AndarianTD]

               

_six wrote...

43 is what pste has used at present

OK, that'll work for me. After looking at my files, it appears that I did the phenotype merge with the Q 1.2 hak, which stopped at pheno 40. Since then, 41 and 42, and now 43, are being used by Q. I'm not sure why, but I'd marked 41-44 as "Sanctum Reserved," but haven't used them for anything yet so that's a non-issue.

I have used the 45-53 range as follows, though:

• I moved CEP lines 15-18 to lines 45-48. (In Q, 15-21 are used for ACP animations.)
• I added a crawling pheno as number 49.
• I moved CEP lines 30-33 to lines 50-53. (In Q, 30-33 are used for what look like Monk-style animations.)

Except for 46 and 49, these are all just 2DA placeholders for CEP entries that I'm not currently using and that it won't cause me any grief to move again if necessary. Pheno #46, however, was formerly the CEP flying pheno (#16). The crawling pheno is based on Goudea's work, which I moved to #49 from its original location at pheno #20. Both of these I absolutely need.

For both of these phenos, I updated all of the model files necessary to make them operational in the CEP/Q merge as phenos #46 and #49. Thanks to some guidance from Goudea, I was also able to make each of them cloak-friendly -- that is, cloaks remain visible for characters when they are in the pheno. (I also overrode the mounted pheno to do the same, since I wanted cloaks to always be visible whether characters were flying, riding, or crawling.)

Because these two phenos (#46 and #49) are, in their current form, customized Sanctum content (by me) based on prior work, I'd be willing to contribute them to Project Q if there's interest  and if that's in accordance with project's submission guidelines. But even if you're not interested in including them in Q, as long as phenos 46 and 49 remain clear, I won't have to worry about moving them again. And in any event, I'll try to keep any additional pheno work in the 100+ range, as your reserved range guidelines suggest.

I've re-posted this in the Project Q forums for reference as well.

henesua wrote...

This sounds promising, but I'm not sure how it will all work in Q. Given that Vaei's upgraded animations are likely to be added to another phenotype:

(1) will a player have to switch to that phenotype (sounds like 43) to take advantage of the upgraded animations by Vaei?

I would expect so, yes.

(2) will these animations require editing of clothing parts like robes and cloaks?

It's been a while since I did this, but I think so, yes. At least that's what I had to do to customize the flying and crawling phenos.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par AndarianTD, 13 novembre 2011 - 04:09 .