Changing Model Textures. Can Anyone Help Please?("RoloKipp", "Amethyst Dragon" or anyone?)

[Legacy_MissJaded]

               Excuse me? I'm looking for someone/anyone to help me with retexturing a model. Can anyone help me please?

I've been using GMax/NWMax to edit a werewolf npc so that I can give it the animation I want it to do.
I think I originally wanted it to do a Victory animation. But I've changed my mind, and now want it to do
"Look_Far"

I posted asking about this not long ago, and got very helpful replies from "Rolo Kipp" and "Amethyst Dragon"
who will know from my previous posts what i'm looking for.

Don't know if either of you could spare some time again to help, though anyone else who knows about modelling in NWN 1 will be just as helpful.

I was given a link to a Custom Content Guide which I have found quite useful, and have been trying to follow the steps in it, which for me is all from page 101 on there.

The npc type I found which does the "Look_Far" animation is the Asabi Cieftain (or warrior for e.g.)
So I'm trying to retexture it for the White Werewolf I'm using in my module scene.

The Custom Content Guide instructs the retexturing of turning a green spider into an orange crab.
I've been trying to follow those directions but with the asabi, editing and retexturing e.t.c.

I got as far as adding my edited appearance .2da, .mdl and .tga files into hak.
I was trying to get the asabi model to look White. But when I loaded it into module, it was still the same colours and textures as it was originally. '

Some part of the instructions in the Custom Content Guide have been just a little confusing to understand. :-/
But I have followed and qute sure I have understood most of it so far.
I know there must be something I am missing and havn't done correctly, though I just cannot work out what it is. *sigh!!* :-/

Can anyone help me out a bit please? Maybe give me any advice, or failing that, maybe make an edited model for me if they are able to spare any time.

Also, on page 106 and into 107 of the Custom contemt Guide, it goes onto explain how to reshape the spider into a crab. (using GMax/NWMAX) I have absolutely NO clue how I'm supossed to do this with the asabi model, changing it into a werewolf.'> I suppose the werewolf is a tad chubbier, and maybe the hands and feet are a bit different too. But I find the instructions in the Custom Content Guide a bit vague and doesn't explain it very well

For e.g. it says at 1 point, "shorten and fatten the legs"

How on earth do I do something like that in GMax/NWMax?
I don't understand it. :-/ *sigh!*
 
For the were wolf, couldn't I just open the asabi model in GMax/NWMax, and then just load the were wolf in its place instead? Wouldn't that work just as good?

Is there anyone who can help me out here please? It would be very helpful.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               

I got as far as adding my edited appearance .2da, .mdl and .tga files into hak.
I
was trying to get the asabi model to look White. But when I loaded it
into module, it was still the same colours and textures as it was
originally.

Could it be that your new white texture shares the same name as an existing texture...which already has a .DDS version and which the game will give preference to? (?)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:31 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Frith5]

               Sounds like what you really want is to use an existing werewolf model, but to give it the animation 'look far', which the model does not yet have to use? Is that your goal?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MissJaded]

               

OldTimeRadio wrote...

I got as far as adding my edited appearance .2da, .mdl and .tga files into hak.
I
was trying to get the asabi model to look White. But when I loaded it
into module, it was still the same colours and textures as it was
originally.

Could it be that your new white texture shares the same name as an existing texture...which already has a .DDS version and which the game will give preference to? (?)

Not as far as I know.
I called mine c_werewolf. As far as I know, that doesn't alreday exist.
I feel there are 1 or 2 things in the Custom content Guide that I may not have followed very well becasue I have not understood them, whcih makes it rather confusing. '

I just don't understand right now where I'm going wrong!'

Frith5 wrote...

Sounds like what you really want is to use
an existing werewolf model, but to give it the animation 'look far',
which the model does not yet have to use? Is that your goal?

Yes. That's correct. The werewolf model wasn't given this animation in the first place, and so when I script it to do so, it doesn't work, hence the werewolf just stands there doing nothing!'

Now, the only other models I know of which have originally been given the "Look_Far" animations are the asabi types, and I think humans aswell, as I can use this emote ingame from the radial menu as a pc.

I'm really looking for someone who may be able to spare a bit of time and make this for me since I'm getting the instructions in the CC Guide a bit mixed right now.'>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MissJaded, 03 novembre 2011 - 05:27 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MissJaded]

               What I don't understand is.... why couldn't they have just given all animations to all NPCs in the first place!!?? I don't understand that!!'>

That would have made it a whole lot easier for me to work with, and not even having to bother going to all this trouble to read up stuff in a very complicated and silly guide, just to be able to give 1 measly animation to an NPC!
How silly that they never gave them all these animations to be begin with!!'


Is there anyone out there who can spare a bit of time to put this together for me please?
Someone who knows a lot more about modelling than I can ever understand right now!'>
*sigh!!*
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MissJaded, 03 novembre 2011 - 05:28 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               

MissJaded wrote...

What I don't understand is.... why couldn't they have just given all animations to all NPCs in the first place!
I don't understand that!!'>

That would have made it a whole lot easier for me to work with, and not even having to bother going to all this trouble to read up stuff in a very complicated and silly guide, just to be able to give 1 measly animation to an NPC!
How silly that they never gave them all these animations to be begin with!!''>

Simple, but multipart answer:
1) NWN was written for windows 98.  Not ME, Not XP, Not Vista, and not Win7.  As such, it was written for MUCH older machines, with much less processing power than what most of us have today.  It has been patched to work with later versions of windows, but the original target audience was windows 98 users. Those various patches/updates to NWN will allow NWN to work with later versions of Windows/Macs etc, did not really re-write the engine, just gave it enough ability to run under later versions.  As such, it was not rewritten to give it more power or ability to USE the power of later machines, graphics cards etc.

2) Animations, even if not used by a partiuclar creature take up memory and thus processing power.  Many custom animations are not used at all by most of the creatures in game, so why waste memory, and processing power, having that animation set loaded?


Believe me, we ALL feel your pain on how animations are inherited, but at the same time, it does save a lot of aggravation on recreating a given animation.  If the creature is basically the same as a human then inheritance works without being forced to edit the individual animations.  However, if that creature has a different bone structure, OR if it is greatly different in size etc, then you have to edit/create a new animation by the same name to make it work correctly, otherwise you end up with hands that don't connect to the forearms, or knees that bend in the wrong location on the creature etc...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MissJaded]

               

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

Simple, but multipart answer:
1) NWN was written for windows 98.  Not ME, Not XP, Not Vista, and not Win7.  As such, it was written for MUCH older machines, with much less processing power than what most of us have today.  It has been patched to work with later versions of windows, but the original target audience was windows 98 users. Those various patches/updates to NWN will allow NWN to work with later versions of Windows/Macs etc, did not really re-write the engine, just gave it enough ability to run under later versions.  As such, it was not rewritten to give it more power or ability to USE the power of later machines, graphics cards etc.

Well thanks for the heads up on that one.
I guess NWN 1 has been around for quite some time now, and as such it was released in 1998, some years ago now. So a lot of technology wasn't as well updated back then as it is now, hence the fact that new stuff is only found out and becoming available over time..... bigger and better as time goes on.
I understand that bit now.

2) Animations, even if not used by a partiuclar creature take up memory and thus processing power.  Many custom animations are not used at all by most of the creatures in game, so why waste memory, and processing power, having that animation set loaded?

As I / we have just established, things get bigger and better as time goes on.
By now, there must be a good number of people out there who have high end machines which are good enough to process all this stuff.

Now obviously I don't know how to do it myself, but if someone out there were to make some kind of a hak which had ALL the animations for ALL npc's and put it on N.W. Vault, then I'm sure there'd be a number of people (including myself) who would gladly download it and use it in their modules.

However, it sounds like this would only have to be used in a single player game, (which is what my sole intent is) as there could be loading problems and lag e.t.c if it were used for multiplayer purposes.

Believe me, we ALL feel your pain on how animations are inherited, but at the same time, it does save a lot of aggravation on recreating a given animation.  If the creature is basically the same as a human then inheritance works without being forced to edit the individual animations.  However, if that creature has a different bone structure, OR if it is greatly different in size etc, then you have to edit/create a new animation by the same name to make it work correctly, otherwise you end up with hands that don't connect to the forearms, or knees that bend in the wrong location on the creature etc...

Okay, so I think I understand what you're saying.
But right now, it's just so complicated for me to understand  stuff in the CC Guide well enough to be able to get a result I'm looking for!'

Later on, the guide goes on to explain about changing the appearance of a green spider into an orange crab.
But the instructions are so darn vague and doesn't give you any exact details on how to go about this! :-/
*SIGH!!*


But in my case, I'm looking to change the appearance of an asabi model (or even a human) into a werewolf so I can give it the "Look_Far" animation. But THAT for me.... is complicated, as I won't have a single clue what to change and how!'

The CC Guide doesn't exactly tell me which tools to use in GMax / NWN Max to know how to do this.
All it says basically is (for e.g.) fatten the legs or stretch the head. There are no actual instructions which tell you how to fatten the legs. (for e.g) And THAT.... to me is a rather poorly written guide if ever I saw one!'
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MissJaded, 03 novembre 2011 - 07:14 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MissJaded]

               I'm still looking for someone out there who is willing to spare some time to make this new model and animation for me!

Is there anyone out there please who can help me?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldMansBeard]

               The werewolf model c_werewolf.mdl already has all its animations built-in. It doesn't use a supermodel, so you needn't worry about that aspect.

Its parts are named as creature parts and its animations are creature animations. For example, it has a part called "Lfootclaws" which human NPC's don't have. Its walk animation is called "cwalk" where the "c" denotes "creature".

You can't just copy the "lookfar" animation from a human NPC model or supermodel and tack it onto a werewolf, because the part names are different and the engine can't match them up. We could get round this by lifting out the lookfar animation from a_ba.mdl, altering the part names and pasting it into the werewolf model. I could tell you how to do that.

.. but ..

It wouldn't be any use. There's no scripting command to tell a creature to execute a "lookfar" animation.

.. so ..

You need to turn the werewolf into a human-type model instead of a creature-type model.

Before I go on, is that okay so far ?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MissJaded]

               

OldMansBeard wrote...

The werewolf model c_werewolf.mdl already has all its animations built-in. It doesn't use a supermodel, so you needn't worry about that aspect.

Its parts are named as creature parts and its animations are creature animations. For example, it has a part called "Lfootclaws" which human NPC's don't have. Its walk animation is called "cwalk" where the "c" denotes "creature".

You can't just copy the "lookfar" animation from a human NPC model or supermodel and tack it onto a werewolf, because the part names are different and the engine can't match them up. We could get round this by lifting out the lookfar animation from a_ba.mdl, altering the part names and pasting it into the werewolf model. I could tell you how to do that.

.. but ..

Hi.
Thank you for your very helpful reply.'>
I see. I think I have understood what you have explained here.

It wouldn't be any use. There's no scripting command to tell a creature to execute a "lookfar" animation.

I didn't realize the scripting part isn't going to work that way around.

But.....
the asabi type creature model "does" and "will" execute the "Look_Far" animation when I script it to do so.

.. so ..

You need to turn the werewolf into a human-type model instead of a creature-type model.

Before I go on, is that okay so far ?

Yes.... it all seems fine so far.

I'm just have 2 questions here please?

1) Even though the asabi model is still a creature type, would it also work to turn the werewolf into an asabi, since it (asabi) can execute the "Look_Far" animation when scripted to do so?

2) For turning the npc werewolf model into a npc human type model, (or asabi, if that's possible?) will I still be able to get the werewolf appearance?

I'm not sure how that works out.
Do you think you could explain this to me please?

Your reply has been very helpful so far. Thanks.'>

Just thinking here... if it helps at all, I wouldn't mind if you wanted to send me a PM explaining in more detail.
But I come back to the forums here every late evening to check for new replies anyway.
But it's up to you.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MissJaded, 04 novembre 2011 - 04:52 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_OldMansBeard]

               Okay, good.

I'll reply here so other people can maybe learn from (or contribute to) our discussions.

The asabis are already human-type models (even though they may not look like it), which is why it does work for them. We need to change the werewolf to be more like them but still preserve the werewolf-like appearance. There are two files to change and you can do everything in Windows Notepad. The files you need are c_werewolf.mdl (fairly obviously) and appearance.2da (less obviously).

I'll go through the process myself first, to make sure that what I tell you is sensible, then post again with precise details.

OMB
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MissJaded]

               

OldMansBeard wrote...

Okay, good.

I'll reply here so other people can maybe learn from (or contribute to) our discussions.

Hi again.

That sounds like a very good idea.
It's always handy for other people (like me who haven't quite got this stuff worked out yet) to learn something new.'>

The asabis are already human-type models (even though they may not look like it), which is why it does work for them. We need to change the werewolf to be more like them but still preserve the werewolf-like appearance. There are two files to change and you can do everything in Windows Notepad. The files you need are c_werewolf.mdl (fairly obviously) and appearance.2da (less obviously).

I see. So I may not be needing a .tga file then as I thought?
I'd like to wait and see how this would turn out.

I have another question please?
Okay, so we are to grab the  "Look_Far" animation from a human type model by swapping appearances.
But what about the original animations that the werewolf started out with? Does it still get to keep those, or not?

I can't think of any I'll be using right now. So if not, then hopefully it shouldn't be too much trouble.

I'll go through the process myself first, to make sure that what I tell you is sensible, then post again with precise details.

OMB

Sure. No problem. I'll come back again a bit later and see if you replied.
Thanks for the help so far.'>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MissJaded, 05 novembre 2011 - 03:32 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_OldMansBeard]

               We can keep the werewolf-ish animations and give it the missing ones. Here goes :

First, we will change the model name from c_werewolf to werewolf. This is going to be an extra model; the original one will still be available in the game too.

•  Open c_werewolf.mdl in Notepad
•  Using Edit>Replace all, change "c_werewolf" to just "werewolf" everywhere
•  But then change "bitmap werewolf" back to "bitmap c_werewolf" everywhere
•  Save As werewolf.mdl (i.e. without the c_ in the filename) but keep it open in notepad

Next, we need to change the names of the parts to match human-type ones. Mostly, they just need <underscore>g added to the end but some are completely different. Again, use Replace All:

• pelvis to pelvis_g
• thigh to thigh_g
• calf to shin_g
• foot to foot_g
• torso to torso_g
• neck to neck_g
• head01 to head_g
• bicep to bicep_g
• forearm to forearm_g
• hand to hand_g

Save the file again and check by looking at the saved file in NWNExplorer. It should still look like a werewolf !

Now, assuming you want to keep the werewolf-ish animations where possible, we need to change the animation names to the corresponding human ones so the game engine will recognise them. Mostly, we just have to take the first "c" off the names. Again, Replace All but be careful with spaces:

• newanim<space>c to newanim<space>
• doneanim<space>c to doneanim<space>

Save the file again and look at it afresh in NWNExplorer. It should still look like a werewolf.

Now, the werewolf-ish animations don't include things like lookfar, so we will tell the engine to fall back on asabi-like ones if it needs to. This is where supermodels come in handy. Near the beginning of the file, round about the fifth line, it will say "setsupermodel werewolf NULL". Change the NULL to c_oldwara which is one of the lizard-man models that the Asabi Chief also references.

Save the file again and look at the saved file in NWNExplorer. It should still look like a werewolf.

Copy the file into override so we can test it.

Next, we need to modify the file appearance.2da to tell the engine about our new model. But you need to be careful which version you start from. If your module has any hakpacks attached to it, there may be a customised version of appearance.2da in one of them. If so, you must use that one (or, if there are several in different haks, the one in the topmost in the order you see in module properties) as a starting point. Open it in Notepad (turn off word wrap) and find the row numbered 171 which defines the standard werewolf. Copy that line and paste it right at the bottom of the file as a new entry. Then we need to change some of the entries in the new line:

• Change the number in the first column to be one more than the line above it.
• In the second column, change the Werewolf to something different, such as Werewolf_NPC
• In column 3, change the number to 58703 (that's the strref for "What's this about a werewolf?")
• In the 5th column, change the model name c_werewolf to just werewolf
• In column 8, change the S to an F
• In column 9, change the **** to 1
• In the 3rd column from the end, change head01 to head_g

Save the file. It can go into override for testing if there are no versions of appearance.2da in any of your hakpaks, otherwise it needs to go into a topmost hak.

There, that wasn't difficult, was it ?

Now, in the toolset, when you select the appearance type of a creature, just below the Werewolf entry there will be a new one called "What's this about a werewolf", which is the newly altered one that can do emotes and so on.

Try that, and post how you get on.

OMB
               
               

               

                     Modifié par OldMansBeard, 05 novembre 2011 - 05:27 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MissJaded]

               Just a quick message for now to say that I have read over your reply, which looks very helpful and informative indeed.

Just gonna follow your steps and see what happens.
I'll post again afterwards when I've reached a result with this.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]


Edit

Okay. I've made a start on this already. But I'm a bit confused with something.

So you start by asking me to open c_werewolf.mdl in notepad (I'm using wordpad here, but it's the same thing I think) so as to change/edit a few things near the start. Fine so far.

But then you ask me to save the file - Save as werewolf.mdl
This is where I'm confused now.

I have just opened the model file in a text document, and the only format I see it been saved in is a .txt file.
I don't know how to change it back to a .mdl file. You say a bit later on to open it in NwN Explorer and see that it still looks like a werewolf. But I cannot do this when it's a .txt file as I said.

Any ideas here please?
I'm just a little confused about this right now. I'm sorry. :-/
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MissJaded, 07 novembre 2011 - 05:04 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_OldMansBeard]

               Ah. It's windows doing silly things with file extensions. Make sure you have the windows option to hide file extensions turned off. (it's in Tools>Folder Options>View>"Hide extensions for known file types"). Then change the file name to rub out the .txt and just leave the werewolf.mdl