Community Patch new update -> beta 6

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

SHOVA wrote...

thanks for the quick reply.
I think part of what is keeping folks from using this, is that builders already have made certain changes to spells, Evards for example, and with this patch would have to redo the changes to fit their world. To me as a builder, it sounds like more work.

This is not true. As said before, anything in override/module/hak will have priority. If a builder changed all spells on his own like many servers out there did (AW,BoW,HG etc.), the spellscript from 1.70 wont be used. Of course that means that you wont get any spell fixes from the patch until you rewrite your spells onto 1.70 version using a new spell engine concept. But that optional and totally up to you.

Actual uber fixes I saw, from your readme,
- iprp_spells .2da
   - Barkskin (6) changed to 7 (which will allow to make potions +4AC)
   - Barkskin (12) changed to 13 (which will allow to make potions +5AC)
To me a potion should not exceed +3. so in my book these are uber fixes.

For a low magic environment its understandable. Point is, there is no default Barkskin potion that would used the Barkskin (7) (formely 6) or 13 (formerly 12). If someone made his own potion and used a lvl 6 then there is a question of why he did it as it has the same effect as a third lvl version which comes in default NWN palette. So a custom content could made only a +4 ac potion using a 12 caster level. Now this change allows builder to make a potion of even +5 ac if he wishes to. That however doesn't change a regular module in any way. And btw notice that you could get a +4AC from this potion before (if you made a copy with lvl 12 caster lvl) already.

More closely if you look into 1.69 barkskin spellscript you would see that in some older patch a lvl 6 gave +4ac and lvl 12 gave +5, that was changed in some patch but not along with the itemproperties. Also see nwnwiki page for barkskin spell http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Barkskin .

EDIT: some spells has more than one variant that can be place into item (potion/wand). Mostly the caster levels are scaled only when the spell gets another +1 so each variant has either more damage or more AC/enhancement or damage/ab. Most of them is not used in the default NWN palette however.

- encumbrance.2da
   - expanded to allow insane strenght values above 50 to maximum strength NWN can handle (255)
- armor.2da
   - dex bonus from robe was changed from 100 to unlimited to allow insane DEX modifiers up to 255
These while I wouldn't ever want to use in any of my mods, seems way over powered, even if it is 3rd ed rules.

Both changes applies only if a builders allows such strenght or dexterity scores in first place. Or if the player cheats use console to gain uber abilities in his single player game. Previously if he did it, he couldnt move due to the game thought the max weight is 0 ue to the missing lines in encumbrance.2da, similar with AC from dexterity with robe. No need to be afraid as this does not affect a normal environment in any way.

- major change in scrolls, all classes now can cast scrolls of the spells they have in their spell list. This means that Bard no longer can automatically without 25+ UMD skill cast all scrolls, and Assassin, Harper Scout, Blackguard and Pale Master now can cast from some spells too.  

I don't care for this fix, seems giving automatic being able to cast it because I can already do it is for lack of a better word, cheesy. Again, its just my build/play style.

I dont understand your comment but this is a nerf actually.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 05 novembre 2011 - 07:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               how I am reading the last change to scrolls, is you changed the standard bio made item to be castable (readable) by any character that can already cast the spell, (either has it memorized, or known). While in some SP games this could be useful, in MP that is a huge change that could greatly unbalance, the game. It appears more of a style of play thing, rather than a needed to be fixed thing. When you take into account that most PWs use the standard scrolls from bio, in order to not push the 16k limit, making such a change "universally" across one item type is scary for those who would consider this.

I am still not sold on using the patch. It has beta in the title, and while yes, I have been known to use beta versions before, but, after the last CEP beta and having to start completely over on my mod, I am not willing to chance it yet. perhaps if others were weighing in on how it does, I would change my mind. So far it has just been you, and your opinion on it isn't exactly unbiased. Please don't take this the wrong way ShaDoOoW, many things that you have listed I am interested in using, but I'll wait for it to be a final version, or at least used by some of the PWs I play at.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

SHOVA wrote...

how I am reading the last change to scrolls, is you changed the standard bio made item to be castable (readable) by any character that can already cast the spell, (either has it memorized, or known). While in some SP games this could be useful, in MP that is a huge change that could greatly unbalance, the game. It appears more of a style of play thing, rather than a needed to be fixed thing. When you take into account that most PWs use the standard scrolls from bio, in order to not push the 16k limit, making such a change "universally" across one item type is scary for those who would consider this.

I am still not sold on using the patch. It has beta in the title, and while yes, I have been known to use beta versions before, but, after the last CEP beta and having to start completely over on my mod, I am not willing to chance it yet. perhaps if others were weighing in on how it does, I would change my mind. So far it has just been you, and your opinion on it isn't exactly unbiased. Please don't take this the wrong way ShaDoOoW, many things that you have listed I am interested in using, but I'll wait for it to be a final version, or at least used by some of the PWs I play at.

Problem is that it seems you don't know exactly how does spellscrolls work by default. And you are not the only one I guess as this is quite weird issue. So I will explain it to you.

In 1.69 by default you can use whatever scroll that has "use limitation class" of the any class your character have (Problem is that there is "use limitation: Bard" on almost every arcane spellscroll even though bard doesnt have it in his spell list and I removed him from here, so bard can use only those he has in his spelllist). Others appear to be red thus unusable unless you get Use Magic Device skill. Then it takes only 5UMD rank and you can use all spellscrolls. And now - if you play on easy or normal, you cast them automatically. But if you play Hardcode or Very Difficult there is a UMD check script which behave weird and not logically. By default, if you have at least 1 level of wizard, sorcerrer or bard, then you don't have to beat the UMD DC of 25+InnateLevel (I changed DC to 7+(3*InnateLevel) as before it was impossible to use scrolls by rogue on lower levels, if you compute it you find out that a DC for casting a lvl 9 spellscroll is a same than used to be) even althought the spell on the scroll is divine! On the contrary, if you are cleric, paladin, druid or ranger and you have a 5UMD ranks and you try to use any scroll even such that has a spell you have in your spell list, you have to beat UMD DC.

And thats what I changed -> if you are druid and you try to cast a scroll of a nature's balance, you dont have to make UMD check. If you are bard and you try to cast a scroll of Implosion then you have to make UMD check. So in the end, it does nerf bard very hard and fixes a divine casters with UMD.

The only extra feature is that a Pale Master, Harper Scout and Blackguard classes were added on few spellscripts (cats grace, bulls strenght, eagles splendor, animate dead, contagion, inflict spells) as a limited use: class in order to be able to use such spellscroll without UMD.

The scrolls change was fully explained in the full readme which was included into to last two versions (and will be again very soon).

Yes, this change is according to old thread on bioware forum in contrary with Bioware intent, as someone else already found this issue long time ago and told it to Bioware and they responded they know about it and it was intent in the time when they made that script. However my opinion is that Bioware abadoned this game and their old intent might not be desireable in this moment, so if something doesn't make sense then I change it to make sense.

Also note that a spellscrolls put into store directly in area will still have the old scrolls, that is with bard class on them even though its not a bard spell. If a builder wants to get rid of bard there, he will have to remove old scrolls and give new one from palette.

BTW nothing in patch counts towards to 16k limit.




And now to the rest of your comment. I dont get why some peoples are so biased to this patch. Its simple. Install it, if it makes something wrong then stone me. While the list of the changes is so long a regular player or builder shouldn't notice anything after installation (provided he got main GUI in his override as if not thats the first thing he would noticed hehe). A veteran builders who did many changed already, mostly into spell or who uses CEP2 wont get 50% of fixes anyway as the CEP override new 2das and scripts in module overrides new default. So you wont lose anything by installing it. And nobody force you to rescript your changes into spells or merge your 2DAs. And notice that the patch includes a brand new utility to automatically merge your 2DAs.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Thing is, I have no disappointed "customers". But there is a lot of peoples who are afraid to install it because some other peoples spreading false informations about this project and its usefulness.

These peoples either:
- don't like me
- don't like project's name or project itself in general
- are experienced builders who are convinced that they don't need it as they can do it themselves or they already did or they have heavy modified module so it would override most of my fixes anyway
- didn't tried to install my patch at all or/and didn't read all documentation available
- didn't put enough effort to understand a certain issue (like for example your though about armor.2da and encumbrance.2da fix) and simply misinterpret the change in wrong way

I cannot however see how any of this reason authorizes these peoples to tell others, that this project is wrong and that they shouldn't use it. I also don't like for example the World of Serpent Inn's changes into the classes or their environment in general, but that doesn't mean its bad server and I'm not telling others not to play there.

I choosed the word of Community in the time I found this project as I hoped that the community will help me and will interest int this project. Unfortunatelly after year and the way how the community (un)supported me, it looks that the NWN community is really in bad state. That way or another (or I am completely wrong and out of mind) its too late to change the project's name. The fact that the content is gathered from many community members will have to be sufficient.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               I have to admit I'm not on my usual hero side here...
First I'm no tech at all...
Second my actual NWN works so fine, and I made so many changes... which I remember nothing of, even if I was pretentious enough to write a list about it. Now you said, overrides are no troubles... 
So, maybe I'd make a second NWN folder with your work in it soon enough. 

Just two thoughts: 
- I'm not that afraid, even pretty much confident. Just a matter of time. 
- I do not hate you at all. '>
All I could maybe need is a two lines statement: "Here are the reasons why you shoul install my work of heart". 

Beside the fact I can't open your .exe file on my Mac, of course. Which is absolutely secondary... 
Is it really? 
It is not... '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:20 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               You dont spreading crap about my project so you dont count '>. If you want I can make a 7zip installation for MAC/unix but only in english so far, or wait for final version which should be close.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               English is fine.
But if the 'final' is as close as you say, don't bother for now.
Remember to think of .zip when it's the right moment...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

jmlzemaggo wrote...

English is fine.
But if the 'final' is as close as you say, don't bother for now.
Remember to think of .zip when it's the right moment...

Ok I uploaded a 7zip manual instalation, see my original post for link. Just extract in the NWN directory and confirm overwriting of any files (will want to overwrite dialog.tlk and x2patch.key). Its working for linux, but no idea whether it will work on MAC as I havent seen a NWN structure there. But again, if anything goes wrong you can use 1.69 critical rebuild and then stone me. BTW all instances of nwn should be closed before you attempr to install it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               No critical rebuild for Mac either. I'd just make a brand new NWN directory &  trash it if it goes wrong. Anyway, I'll wait for the final.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Stanley Woo]

               Moved to Custom Content forum.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <stopping by just long enough...>

Moved to Custom Content? Makes sense :-)
I'm following this closely, ShadoOow. I think you've done an incredible amount of work.

Soon as I get *my* systems working and (mostly) debugged, I'll be checking your patch out.
Scout's honor! <you're not a scout> Hush, bird.

<...to give ShadoOow some encouragement>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Rolo Kipp wrote...

Moved to Custom Content? Makes sense :-)

does it? I am not really so sure. It was meant as an annoucement for players mainly. Im not sure whether they find it burried there, but whatever. Anyway thanks for support.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 07 novembre 2011 - 06:20 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <thinking about it...>

It does, as it is customizing the official release.  

OTOH, it would make *more* sense in the Tools and plugins... IMOHO :-)

<...for a minute>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               A full and exhausted documentation finished for current beta version, even credits. You can download it from original post or from my signature.

If anyone thinks of anything I missed or messed in there, let me know.
If I forgot on someone who helped with patch or someone doesnt want to figure in credits, just say.

If someone wants, any effort to fix my bad grammar is appriciated. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               New version or rather "quickfix" to adress few issues that were reported to me or I found them myself:

Still looking for someone willing to help me with german translation (its about fifty lines of text)!

DOWNLOAD (windows installer by AlDark)
DOWNLOAD (7zip archive manual instalation for unix/MAC
DOCUMENTATION (in progress, link in my signature still leads to old version)

Now to the changes since beta6:

Fixed broken stuff from Patch
- fixed some missing Auto 2DA Merger patterns
- fixed GetSlashingWeapon to consider slashing+piercing weapons like halberd or scythe again
- fixed mind blank spells not properly removing bane/feeblemind effects
- fixed constitution stacking in the polymorph crash fix workaround
- fixed targetting issue with associates of a nonplayable creature in spellsIsTarget function
- AI decreases ineffective spell uses again due to the bug in the GetCreatureTalentRandom function (intent was to improve spell selection, which failed)
- unintelligent races like vermins uses healing (if they have it) again (they shouldn't according to bioware code, but due to the bug in script, this never worked until I unintentionaly fixed it) - new intent is that if builder gives them any healing talents, they should be able to use them
Additional features into existing content from Patch
+ added missing adjustable holy and negative trap scripts
+ Spell Immunity precedence in ResistSpell check now takes into account also itemproperties with immunity to specific spell, spell by level or spell school placed on target's skin

HAK version
- HAK version adds secret creatures, Belker and Goblin without arrow quiver

New fixes and features
- added a new module switch to disable the Spell Immunity precedence in ResistSpell check
- added a new module switch to allow to ignore SR check inside all AOE spell effects
- partialy incorporated "Craft Magic fixes" by The Krit (as I caught some issues already)
- added Halaster into the GetIsFlying function
- fixed IPGetIsBludgeoningWeapon to consider bludgeoning+piercing weapons like morningstar
- AOE effects created from special abilities such as auras were set to be permanent, supernatural and undispellable
- enabled and implemented Belker's Smoke Claws special ability
- Sunbeam Innate level corrected
- several creatures added missing incorporeal flag: Allip and Summoned creatures: spectre, wraith, shadow, shadow lord and shadow fiend
- fixed incorporeal flag on spectre summoned from Pale Master feat (she have it but due to wrong script the effects weren't granted)
- several creature's AI level set to high: Halaster, Masterius, G'Zhorb, Demilich, Lich (21CR), Prismatic dragon and Harat
- removed Spell Mantle from demilich's spell selection (as he is immune to all spells, so whats the point)
- Spellscripts:
    - Timestop spell in multiplayer affect only area where the spell was cast
    - Sunbeam: oozes takes full damage as if they were undeads
    - Heal and Mass Heal now correctly restores dying target's hitpoints to maximum
    - Pulse whirlwind special ability: damage was same for all creatures in AoE, new feature: disperses cloud like effects like gust of wind does
    - Shadow attack strength damage reduced to 1d4 from balance reasons (and also the fact that the shadow AI is now much more effective)
- AI:
    - insivible casters switch back to offensive if their target suddenly can sees them
    - casters with HIPS won't attack melee anymore but rather HIPS-cast
    - creatures won't waste full-heal talents if they are not wounded badly
    - undead creatures are now able to use Harm and lesser inflict spells, and even custom potions with these spells to heal themselves
    - creatures won't move towards target when casting Time Stop spell
    - creatures won't recast true seeing/see invisible spells if they still have old spell's effects on them
    - Shadow's special AI rewritten to make his attack more effective (so shadow won't stay flatfooded anymore) and to fix an issue when shadow stopped attacking
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 14 novembre 2011 - 02:04 .