Author Topic: How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?  (Read 836 times)

Legacy_Raven_Xantrice

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« on: September 21, 2011, 03:51:36 pm »


               Hello out there!
Have searched a lot of time for a tutorial explain me how to create by my self a Terrain/Group... for a Tileset! Have found only nwvault.ign.com/View.php this! This is an good explained tutorial on how to create a Tileset but I think its outdated because there is no use with nwMAX! So I'm started how I did:
First I open 3dsmax8. Creating a aurora base named "tiy_a01_01", thats my base for the Tileset Tile. Than I create a plane with the scale of 100x100 and a second plane with the same scale. The on I make with the modifier tab to editable trimesh and the other to walkmesh (before I make them to editable mesh). Now I make a texture on my first plane, the trimesh-plane! Link them to the aurora base. Done? No! The nwMAX script don't export a .wok! I need a wok! '<img'> Have search in existing tilesets and import/export for testing purpose but there it export an wok! Don't know how to to and find no tutorial of it!

Attachement 1: The AuroraDLIght it don't know really what it is but I copy it name it tiy_a01_01ml1 and linket it too!

Attachement 2: I have placed the two planes on y=500 because want to create later a chasm!

Attachement 3: Think the mdl is correct maybe I've forgotten something to write. But thats it!

Thank you for reading and maybe explaining! Have found no tutorial for .wok and Tileset creation but the one of velmar!

Edit: Okay, that model has to be named as tiy01_a01_01! Than it worked - solved. '<img'>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Raven_Xantrice, 21 septembre 2011 - 04:07 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 05:44:33 pm »


               Tiles need to be 1000x1000cm, not 100x100cm.

I can't help very much with specific questions, unfortunately.  I haven't created a tileset in a while.  But I can say that NWMax can definitely export a WOK and that you should probably be using Velmar's Tileset Creator.  You can download it here.  There, you can also download the tutorial videos which will help you use it.  Watch carefully and take notes.

Begin making simple things.  Then make more complex things.  I tried to start making complex tiles and I was very frustrated.  I had to start over and over again.  Finally, I just started making individual tiles.  Once I made 5-10 individual tiles, I started working with tile groups.  It is much easier and less frustrating that way.

I recommend (at least) a copy of the NWN Omnibus (to search for answers) and the BioWare Tileset Construction guide.  The BioWare construction guide is mostly useful just for the pdf/doc.  I don't think the utilities will probably work for you.  HarvestMoonConsortium had some very good tutorials/help but I just checked and they appear to be down.

':unsure:'

If you go slow, read and read and read and take notes, you can achieve almost anything.  This is a single 15x16 tile group made from a mesh I exported from 3D Ripper DX, ripped from the Fallout 3 G.E.C.K. editor.  Be patient and you can achieve whatever you want.

VelsTools is also absolutely invaluable.

Edit: I hear that HarvestMoonConsortium will probably be back up soon-ish, so be sure to check them over the next few days.  Lots of tileset-specific tutorials and information there.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 21 septembre 2011 - 05:32 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Raven_Xantrice

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 07:19:44 pm »


               Okay, have this checked! '<img'> The tileset (there is only >>ground<< work for now fine. Yes, I think i will start with simple ones! It's not sooooo difficult, but a lot of work and correction i Think!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 08:08:39 pm »


               Shoot, you responded that you had it figured out, just about the time I had finished creating a whole bunch of screen shots on how to do it for you.

Anyway, I will post them here for anyone else that has the same sort of issues.

NOTE:  I used VelTools v1.25 for creating tile dummies, it is faster and easier by far than manually creating things.  It automatically links all the dummies to the correct main tile dummy, and allows you to set the tilename etc right from the first.

'Image

That takes care of creating all the dummies you might need for a tile (other than emitters).

'Image

Your first ground plane:
'Image

Your modifier stack:
'Image

Your walkmesh:
'Image

How to link them:
First select the ground plane object, then click the buttons in this next screen;
'Image
'Image

There are some basic details in those shots so please read the text in them as well.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Raven_Xantrice

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 08:41:58 pm »


               Thank you very much! '<img'> I read this and try! I want to create a modern/postmodern/gothic city tileset with chasm and not water. I know it will be easier to retexture but thats not my goal! '<img'>

Edit:
First goal:
'Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Raven_Xantrice, 21 septembre 2011 - 07:49 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 09:26:47 pm »


               Hmmm... there are a couple ways to go about it all I guess.

One way would be to take a tileset where the buildings are close to what you want, and modify that tileset.

Say for the water tiles, call them chasm instead, and remove the water plane... and adjust the wok object to prevent walking, a water surface of type 6 WILL allow you to walk, while a type 17 (deepwater) won't.  Or you you could change that surface type to a type 7, which is a no-walk surface.

Much of that could be done fairly automatically.  Getting you a working set, without a great deal of effort, and giving you a base to work from.  Once you have that done, you could deepen the water tiles, to make them appear deeper, change the texture on the ground (under what was originally water) to some other texture etc...

I can and do create NEW stuff, but about 80% of the time, I start with some tile/group/set that someone else created, and add/modify as I want.

3dsmax is not intuitive to me, and the NWN engine constraints make it even harder for some things.  Using NWmax, Veltools and Velmar's tileset creator, all make it easier, but you still have to CREATE things, and the way 3ds does that, makes it a bit more difficult.  

I know I hate that I am limited by the default shapes that 3ds allows you to create, IE box, pyramid, plane, etc.. but just about anything can be created from those simple objects.  One of the key things I have learned is to raise the default division counts a bit.

IE a plane defaults to a single division per side.  That limits you a great deal, and NWN needs vertices at 125cm intervals on a ground plane to allow you to paint two tiles next to each other without visible gaps.

Anyway, take your flat tile that you just created... assuming it has those vertices at 125 cm intervals, you can duplicate that tile now, rename the duplicate to tile xxxx_a02_01 and start modifying it's shape.

Select the base ground plane, then select vertice mode on the modifier stack.

Now, your vertices show up as little blue dots (you will grow to hate them I expect, as you get more into this whole tile creation thing, and having to chase down those little blue dots...).  Anyway, select a few of them, and drag them down, under the main plane.  Now you have a "ditch/chasm".  Not very realistic looking, but the more you adjust things, the more skilled you will become.

This brings up an issue that you need to keep in mind.  For two flat tiles to connect in game to each other, they can be the same, or as in your screen shot, just one tile.  For a tile that has a different shape, in this case a chasm/ditch, you need TWO tiles to make it work.  One where the chasm crosses the entire tile, and one where it ends in the middle, leaving the flat part on the one side.  So, now your set has 3 tiles total.

If you want to have a large chasm, one that goes completely across the tile, and does not go back to flat level on the other side, you will need more than 3 total tiles.  You have to create one that is flat on one corner, and chasm on the other three, one that is flat on two corners, and flat on the other two, and one that is flat on 3 corners, with chasm on the final 4th corner.  So, that means you have 5 tiles now, instead of just one...

Flat - all 4 coners
Flat - 3 corners, chasm on 4th
Flat - 2 corners, chasm on other two (on same side of tile)
Flat - 2 opposite corners, chasm on other 2 opposite corners.
Flat - 1 corner, chasm on other 3.

5 tiles.  That is without having any variations on those tiles.

Variations are where say, you have chasm on half the tile, flat on other half, but you change the shape of the edge between flat and chasm...  First tile xxxx_a02_01, might have a straight edge, while tile xxxx_a02_02 might have a curved in section, where the chasm goes slightly further across the tile into the center...

Anyway, I can create some basic images for that if you need it.  

There is a basic naming convention used on tilesets.

xxxxx_a01_01  <-- where xxxxx is the 5 character name of the tileset.  ttr01 for rural as an example.
ttr01_x01_01  <<-- where the "x" is the character chosen to represent the basic terrain, this letter doesn't matter all that much, but I try to follow Bioware basic naming to help me keep track.  In this case, using an "a" would basically mean, this is the first terrain type in the set.  In your case, I would assume "ground" which might mean grass, or cobble or stone.  You would want to only use the letter "a" for a tile that is of that specific terrain type.

ttr01_a01_xx <-- where the "xx" is the variation.  Most tilesets have at least one variant for each tile created, many, have many many more variants.

Next terrain, in your case chasm, would go with the next letter so your tile name would be:
ttr01_b01_01 for the first tile.  Notice the change from a01 to b01.

Where two different terrains meet, you should pick the first letter of the first terrain, and the variants of that same tile that connect to the other terrain.  ie a01_02. instead of b01_01.  (leave the b01_01 as the base of that chasm terrain).

It can get real complicated, but once you get a feel for things, you will understand why tiles are named the way they are.

Groups, typically use much higher letters, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y etc....
Crossers, like fences, streams, roads, typically start with letter g, though j or k, depending on how many different crossers you create.

Anyway, once the Harvestmoon website is back up, which should be very soon (damn isp's) there are lots of tutorials/information things regarding tilesets located in our custom content forums, the link is in my sig.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Raven_Xantrice

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 10:03:38 pm »


               Yes, I see it. ^^ The chasm I want to create as second part I named tiy01_b01_xx, okay don't use the bioware standard maybe stupid :S. But I want to try, don't know really if I want to use the set but I will learn with it... See it with the chasm, have think about it before. What I've forgotten?

'Image
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Zwerkules

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 10:25:54 pm »


               You have forgotten one tile with only chasms on it. If you plan on making variations, the first one with chasms in opposite corners is rarely used, so one variation is probably enough. The second one is used very often and should have the most variations, at least 3-4. The third one is used less often than the second and forth, but still more often than the first. The fourth one is almost used as often as the second one. Give it at least 3 variations.

If you invert the image you made so that you have ground where you have chasms now and vice versa, you won't have to rotate tile pathnodes. For example the pathnode 'I' has the walkable part on the left, while your second image has the chasm to the left. So the pathnode would have to be rotated by 180 degrees. It doesn't really matter. You could have the chasm at the top of the image and the ground at the bottom, but in most tilesets the tiles are made so that they match the pathnodes without rotation. Hmm, I'm talking too much. :blush:You probably shouldn't worry about pathnodes yet.

For the first image you could have two different ones. In your image the corners of the ground parts of the image don't touch, but you could make a tile where you could walk across the chasm from one corner to the other.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Zwerkules, 21 septembre 2011 - 09:44 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 10:31:43 pm »


               You need chasm on all 4 (ie deep bottom) and stone/ground on all 4 (which you already created in your first screen shot), but otherwise, you have a good handle on the basic shapes needed to get started with.

If you play around with getting those working in game/toolset before going with creating variations or other terrains, you will get a better understanding of how the different terrains work.

Once you have that understanding, actually editing the tiles so that your chasms have walls that reach up from the bottom to the flat terrain, doing the same thing with the wok for that tile, texturing the pieces etc...

It really is not all that hard, the devil is in the texturing and details.  The more you play with it, the more you will understand.

If you are using the TSC (tileset creator by velmar) it will allow you to add tiles to the set (they don't have to exist yet) with the proper details associated with each tile.

Adding a tile to a given tileset:

'Image  

Adding/Adjusting the details for each tile:
'Image

If you don't have the details set correctly for each tile, the tile will not work in toolset and game.

Be sure to "SAVE or Apply Changes" the updates each time you make adjustments to the details or add a tile.  TSC will not automatically make those changes permanent for you, you MUST "Apply Changes" and "Write the set".
               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 11:44:18 pm »


               Great tutorial you got going there, Bannor!  I'm bookmarking this thread to refer back to- it's easy for all these little details to scamper away from my memory right when I need them the most.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2011, 12:02:01 am »


               Thanks OTR... once Harvestmoon is back up (dang ISP's, take your money and shut you off anyway) I will be posting this as a tutorial there.  Maybe flesh it out a bit more as I go along.  Add more screen shots, like tying in the details for the 4 corners with an actual pic of the resulting tile etc...simple shapes only, not a real tile in a real set but enough for a demo.

Likely this will be a few days down the road, the ISP is claiming 18 hour response time... funny how that works... they auto-shut down your site (without even checking their payment pages), but have absolutely nothing in place to turn you back on... has to have a human involved.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Raven_Xantrice

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2011, 12:03:35 am »


               Yes, the board work! '<img'> Thanks to all people that make this possible: Bannor Bloodfist, OldTimeRadio and Zwerkules!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2011, 12:50:28 am »


               

Raven_Xantrice wrote...

Yes, the board work! '<img'> Thanks to all people that make this possible: Bannor Bloodfist, OldTimeRadio and Zwerkules!


Ok, Then I will stop attempting to anticipate your next question(s).

You are a VERY fast learner it appears, which is a good thing, considering how much there is to learn regarding tilesets.

If you have any other issues, questions, whatever, please ask away, and I am sure someone here, will help you find the answer(s).
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Estelindis

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2011, 01:08:34 am »


               Yes, an excellent tutorial - just like all the other ones Bannor gives, in my experience!  Thanks to Zwerkules and OTR as well.  :-)
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Raven_Xantrice

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How to create a simple Tileset Terrain with nwMAX?
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2011, 01:10:36 am »


               Too many questions '<img'>, with tileset it is more difficult to tryandtestanderrorandresolve than the other things I've tried: armor making, weapons... ... but I need all for my project^^
One question: Can I make more than 1 walkmesh in a tile? Have think about a bridge and I know you cannot walk on top and under the bridge.. will I let the chasm without any walkmesh under the bridge? Okay maybe dummie question! '<img'>