April 2011 Custom Content Challenge: Religious Items and Symbols

[Legacy_TheSpiritedLass]

               It is doubtful I'll have a chance to get this posted to the vault today.  The fridge is about empty and company gets here tomorrow morning.  Yikes!  Time to shop.  So that buys you at least an extra day if you want to fiddle with it?  We can shoot for a posting time of about 9ish tomorrow morning?  (roughly 22 hours from now).

I know in the past I've done something to add spells to gems.  *plays hold music while doing a quick file compare*  Okay for gems I changed the "Category" column from 17 to 15.  This was a REALLY long time ago so no idea if that change does what you want.

Eligio's content doc says:
"I haven’t quite figured this one out. It appears to be related to the Category definition in other tables
(like spells.2da) where it defines what the item is used for. This is used for the AI engine to allow NPCs to properly use the item if equipped with it."

Bet you seven cents a certain dragon would know how to do what you want. '>

*hugs*  You have the hard job.  I just throw stuff in a blender then write down the outcome.  *eyes dancing*
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               

Estelindis wrote...
Would be great if I could find a way to add whatever item properties I wanted to it, so one could have custom enchanted holy symbols.  But it may be one of those hardcoded things that Amethyst mentioned earlier.  Anyway, thank you for all the hard work!

TheSpiritedLass wrote...
Bet you seven cents a certain dragon would know how to do what you want. '>

I have no idea what TheSpiritedLass could be referring to...

*whistles innocently as he walks over a piece of paper that mentions itemprops.2da, column 20_Torch, and something about changing various **** entries to 1*
               
               

               

                     Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 10 mai 2011 - 03:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_TheSpiritedLass]

               How ever did this piece of paper get on my super cluttered desk?  *laughing while handing over seven cents*
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Wonderful!  At the same time I've received a PM from PSM that explains how to make new item types animate as we wish (apparently, one changes the supermodel to whatever it is for the torch, or shield, etc.).  However, such new item types aren't recognised by itemprops.2da, so it looks like we have to make a choice between item properties and item type.  All in all, I'm thinking item properties is going to win out.  ;-)  I mean, how great would it be to have a holy symbol that boosts turning undead, or lets one cast a spell very appropriate to one's deity?  :-D

Thank you all for your wonderful and timely help.  *bustles off like a busy bee*  

EDIT: Maybe there's no need for compromise.  Perhaps I can use an existing itemprops column, like shields or amulets...  *continues to meddle*

EDIT AGAIN: Okay, so that last attempt didn't work - maybe I did it wrong, but even configuring the model base just like a torch's model base (anims and all) didn't make my PC hold the holy symbol up like a torch.  Torch item type it is, with the properties column edited to take the same enchantments as a shield (which seems fair, balance-wise, since it takes a shield-slot).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 11 mai 2011 - 12:05 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Right!  Here's the further-updated baseitems.2da.  No need to change the properties of torches in itemprops.2da; I just made torches use the properties of shields in baseitems.2da.  Thanks to everyone for their help and patience.  :-)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 11 mai 2011 - 12:18 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               ...Well, darn it.  :-)  I'm not much of an expert with this particular 2da at all!  I see that the column ItemMultiplier controls the market value of an item.  The gp cost of the item's properties get multiplied by this number.  For torches, that's 0.02, because the "light" property, which is all they usually have, should be made much less expensive to reflect the fact that it's just an ordinary torch we're talking about here rather than a source of enchanted light.  However, if we leave the value at 0.02, then any additional enchantments placed on the holy-symbols-as-torches will be ridiculously cheap - the items will be very unbalanced.  On the other hand, if we change this value to 1 (the value for shields; no multiplier really), torches will become unnaturally valuable when buying and selling.

Anyway, Lass, I leave it to your discretion.  Personally, I'd change the value to one.  I mean, everyone starts with a torch in their inventory (or so I seem to recall), and they never go out, so they'll never need to buy another.  Sure: they'll be able to sell extra torches for more money than usual, but that's more than made up for by the extra cost of buying any of these equippable holy symbols, I feel.  ;-)  If you agree, I leave it to you to change the value of the column.  :-)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 11 mai 2011 - 12:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               To give added value for the extra time you've allowed us, here are four more holdable holy symbols (Bane, Tempus, Lathander, and Siamorphe).  I've also updated the blueprints for the holdables, as they lacked descriptions previously.  And I think that's it.  :-)


               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 11 mai 2011 - 12:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_gutwrench66kg]

               In order for them to have an enhancement, the builder would have to put it on the item itself. The builder ALSO has the option of increasing the cost of the item in the toolset...

"balance" issue resolved '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               True, but then the builder will have to manually increase the price of every item rather than having the convenience of an automatically-calculated cost that is balanced.  Moreover, what will happen if a player uses a module's custom crafting system to pay to have additional properties added?  Won't the new properties still be ridiculously cheap, in spite of the extra base cost added by the builder?  I'm not a huge expert when it comes to crafting; I'm just going by the type used in some character-builder modules.

EDIT: Oh, by the way...

TheSpiritedLass wrote...

Estelindis - Faerunian Pantheon amulets - Done (for those downloading directly, I ran into some quirks with the last 4 blueprints - Umberless, Valkur, Vesharoon and Vhaeraun. These are fixed in the Vault download.)

I changed those last four when I added the Umberlee amulet appearance (which I initially skipped for some reason; I guess that's just what happens when one is called the **** Queen).  They are all working fine on my end, with correct descriptions, appearances, and logical item tag / blueprint names.  I updated the erf after that, so when I posted the version with the Umberlee icon the properly working blueprints (with descriptions and all) should have been in there.

EDIT AGAIN:  Goodness.  That's the first time I've been swear-filtered on the Bioware forum - indeed, I think, on any forum of any kind.  But it's a religious title!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 11 mai 2011 - 01:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_TheSpiritedLass]

               Hmmmm.  I'm leaning more towards the non-increased cost method.  Simply because in standard 1.69 you can't decrease an item's value but you can increase it.

Perhaps the best solution is to just include both versions of the baseitems file (one with 1.69 cost one with the increased cost), add your description above to a readme file and let the various builders choose which method they want to use.  We have done multiple versions of 2das in the past for those authors that send in CEP versions of their content.  So I think that would work?

Awesome new holdables Este!  I'll get them loaded in.  I'm hoping to get the stuff sent to the vault sometime in the afternoon.  There is still some boring documentation to get done.  Zzzzzzz.  

As far as the amulets, for me, the last two amulets ended up looking the same.  I found the Umberlee one and renumbered it to be on the end (where there had not been one previously).  Then adjusted those last 4 blueprints.   Maybe I was working with an old erf?  It is all good now, at least on my hard drive. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Sure, let's include both versions of the 2da. :-)

As for the amulets, it might be best to grab the erf (and demo mod) again, unless your fixing of appearance also fixed blueprint descriptions, tags, and resrefs.  I favour having consistent naming and description conventions is all.  (Particularly with tags and resrefs, this lets the holy symbols be integrated into deity databases or scripting systems very easily.  Speaking of which, maybe I should've posted my deity scripts!  But they are works in progress.)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheSpiritedLass]

               I'll double check the tags, resrefs and descriptions.  Pretty sure I checked those before but I'll look again. =)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Zwerkules]

               I'm curious, what was that word the swear-filter filtered out? Was it as bad as G-r-a-s-s-master?'>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Zwerkules, 11 mai 2011 - 02:32 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy__six]

               B*tch. Those sailors don't mince words.

I have to say, it had never once occurred to me that NWN's item prices were remotely balanced to begin with. I've often considered setting all item properties to have zero effect so I could scale prices manually per item.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _six, 11 mai 2011 - 02:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Thanks Lass.  You're too good to picky old me!

And yes, Zwerkules, Six is correct.  Umber is the Biotch Queen of the Seas!

NWN items are correct in at least some respect, Six, such as enchantments costing twice as much on weapons as they do on armour (at least, by 2da).  But I agree that some item property costs are baffling.  The system could do with a complete overhaul.