Final farewell from CTP.

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               If we cannot treat each other with affection and respect without threats of legal action being thrown around, then we've already lost anything that would make playing and modding this game together enjoyable.  I think that really makes these legal arguments irrelevant.  

Accordingly, I respectfully ask that folks drop this issue.  Bear in mind that Bannor was not the one who raised it but was only responding - it was not inconsistent for him to comment on the issue before requesting the matter to be shelved, as he had right of response.  You are free to disagree with his opinion, of course, but if you want to discuss the matter at length I ask you to do so elsewhere. Let's put this matter behind us rather than adding more flames to the fire.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 03 janvier 2011 - 08:54 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tyndrel]

               *In best (ex)school teacher voice* 
Are the protagonists in this tedious and circuitous argument ever going to change their opinions and come to an agreement on this subject?  Like many I suspect not, in which case I respectfully suggest that all parties just shut up...  please,  then go stand in the corners of the classroom until you can at least be polite to each other.

Moderator - Could the words copyright and attorney please be added to the swear filter.

It is a tragedy that a thread marking the end of CTP with all their contributions to this game is marred by such bickering. Could we please stay on subject.

Thank you.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               I agree with Tyndrel especially as this is an international community and one country's laws are not necessarily valid in another country let alone enforcible. It is therefore less than helpfull to talk about such things in an open forum.

TR
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 04 janvier 2011 - 12:55 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_rogueknight333]

               I would like to express my own regret about the demise of the CTP, and best wishes to those involved for the future.

As per the wishes of multiple posters, my addressing of potentially controversial topics has been removed to a separate post.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mecheon]

               Sad to see you guys go, but I guess this was a long time coming



Just curious, what's going to happen to the White Wizard tileset? I know there were a few incomplete ones (Forest, DLA Sandstone Caverns and the White Wizard), but out of them I remember hearing it was nearly complete. They were removed from their page, but it was said they would be reuploaded?



Out of all of them, this is the one I'm pretty concerned about because it was Pasilli's tileset
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               I'll try to find out about the sets that were part of Release 2. I know Bannor intended to get all the bugs of White Wizard worked out himself, but it was too much work for one person.  (I have a lot of responsibility for this because I've pretty much done no CTP work lately.)  Myself or someone else from the CTP team will get back to you.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_dunniteowl]

               Long may the Banner of Bannor Bloodfist wave.  It's a sad day when anything sort of closes up and goes away.  I appreciate all the work the CTP has done over the years as well.  While my primary interest is NWN2 these days, I do still have and play NWN and the content that just would not stop over the years was always, to me at least, just inspiring and amazing.

I bid a fond farewell to a vital and important component of the lifespan of NWN.

Long live the CTP, hip hip huzzah!  Hip hip Huzzah!  Hip hip huzzah!

And as far as that goes, Bannor, you would most certainly be more than welcome to transfer whatever you deem necessary, over to the NeverWinter Citadel Project's NWN side of things if you don't find a place to lodge all that stuff that isn't on the Vault.



best regards and well wishes,

dunniteowl
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               Thank you Bannor for uploading the final version of CTP Babylon to the vault. And for what it's worth I always credit originators work where I've used it and the information is available.



TR
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Christopher]

               I am looking at ways to save the a lot of vital information on the website. No activity had occurred on RPGmodding.com for some time and the site was becoming a graveyard. Working on the CTP was a fun hobby for some years but I lost interest in the creation aspect of content. I am a huge fan of CC and spend a LOT of time using and playing with others works. I get enjoyment out of modding and I admire those who persist in creating good content. Even when they occasionally get hit by trolls.



I will find a new home for all the knowledge that has built up over the years on the teams forums. I even have a SQL dump of DLA's forums in it's last days (vb3 format) 2/1/2008. I often thought about adding in their DLAmax support forum.



Take care
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Michael DarkAngel]

               

Christopher wrote...
I will find a new home for all the knowledge that has built up over the years on the teams forums. I even have a SQL dump of DLA's forums in it's last days (vb3 format) 2/1/2008. I often thought about adding in their DLAmax support forum.

Take care

My offer still stands, anything Bannor and Winterhawk don't want to use I will host.

Also, and I was hoping you had saved it, being a former DLA member and currently providing support for NWMax I would definitely love to host those forums.

Please PM me


  MDA
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jfoxtail]

               Adieu - Bannor ! I raise a tankard to you. Thank you on behalf of the pure users who enjoyed all your contributions.

By way of "non techincal" - can I post a question??

Can someone post a concise list of CTP and what I need for my own hacks folder and personal use only - ie single player mods. There is 1 and 2 and Babylon and all use the one master hak.

errr well - what should I have in the folder in similar fashion to the various incarnations (i.e. old days like cep 153 hak and tlk but cep 169 as well as cep 2.)

Thanks all
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Jfoxtail, 06 janvier 2011 - 06:25 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               CTP_Common goes above any of the tielsets from CTP in your module properties hak list.  Any tileset can be added from our releases.



As to CEP stuff?  I have no idea, I don't use it.  At one point, we were compatible,  But that was before their last 2 or 3 patches.  Now?  Your guess is as good as mine.  I would expect conflicts if you are using their tilesets, as I am fairly sure they are using a doorstypes.2da, likely an environment.2da and possibly an areag.ini all of which would have to be merged with the versions in the ctp_common.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Eradrain]

               Though I never had an opportunity to use the CTP's stuff, it's always a shame when another modding team officially kicks the bucket (Though I read in that other thread that someone might buy the website and keep it going after all?).

In any case, thanks for what you've done for the NWN community, like many of the others here, I salute you and your contributions!

Won't touch the ownership/IP argument beyond saying simply, opinion often seems to be split along supply/demand lines, with content developers feeling like they have ownership over what they make, and the people that consume that content for their own projects feeling entitled to use it.  As others have said, you won't be able to change anyone's mind in either camp.  I did find a pretty good solution, though.  As a modder, I've stopped submitting my content to the vault.  I use it myself, share it with close friends, and nobody else even needs to know it exists, let alone gets to use it.  Seems to be a happy enough solution, perhaps it can work for you if you continue to make NWN content in a personal capacity.  There's no obligation to share anything you make with people you do not feel will give you the respect and rights you feel you deserve.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Eradrain, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Winterhawk99]

               Yes Harvest Moon Consortium will by RPGmodding if everything goes well.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_FunkySwerve]

               

Eradrain wrote...
Won't touch the ownership/IP argument beyond saying simply, opinion often seems to be split along supply/demand lines, with content developers feeling like they have ownership over what they make, and the people that consume that content for their own projects feeling entitled to use it.

This is sort of akin to discussing differing opinions on the answer to a calculus question, where one opinion is that of a calculus professor, and the other that of a gradeschooler, in that a) there is a correct answer, and one party is an expert and the other party lacks a great deal  foundational knowlege on the subject. It would be absurd to lend the two 'opinions' equal weight.

You are certainly correct, though, that there is a group of content authors in the community ('suppliers', in your lingo, though there are plenty of suppliers who are not in that group, like me) who seem to share a view of copyright law that is divorced from both the reality of US copyright law and its underlying social policy goals. To exert the kind of control they want, they would need additional terms in their licensing (read: contract). This is why you see explicit clauses reserving the right to withdraw permission to use in licenses. Such a clause makes clear the nature of the content to the contracting parties, placing the risk of such withdrawal firmly on the shoulders of the user of the copyrighted material. When such a clause is absent, it is the habit of US courts to construe assignment of risk against the drafter (including cases where no written contract is made) - in this case, the licensor. This is because such a rule protects any number of efficient policy outcomes, inducing contracting parties to form clear, inclusive contracts with provision for otherwise unforseen circumstances, and to explicity include the cost of such risks in their calculations of the contract's value - promoting an actual 'meeting of the minds', as well as an increased number of pareto-efficient market outcomes (more, and more efficient contracts).

Funky