Lost Vault Content?

[Legacy_Androrc]

               Has there been a loss of NW Vault content? I searched for an old prefab for NW, the Red Wizard Enclave (of 2002), but it was nowhere to be found. Luckily, I still had the file in my external HD. Should I send it to someone for a reupload?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jackal_GB]

               Sometimes authors delete their work for various reasons. There was a scripter who used to throw tantrums because he wouldn't get any votes and keep deleting and re-uploading his work. lol

If you have a file that is not breaking any copyrights (another reason some files are deleted) and you feel it has value to the community, by all means upload it yourself. If you have the original authors name, be sure to credit that person. '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Jackal_GB, 16 décembre 2010 - 11:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Androrc]

               The file was from 2002, and I downloaded it in 2009... well, maybe the author was still active and decided to delete it for some reason. I think it has value to the community because it is a translation to NWN of the principal location of the basic 1st-level adventure of Forgotten Realms for 3rd edition, "The Color of Ambition". I don't think there would be a cause for copyright infringement, as there are many modules that translate 3rd edition adventures, like "The Sunless Citadel" from then which have been kept.



Thanks for the advice '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TSMDude]

               

Jackal_GB wrote...

There was a scripter who used to throw tantrums because he wouldn't get any votes and keep deleting and re-uploading his work. lol

'>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_420]

               

TSMDude wrote...

Jackal_GB wrote...

There was a scripter who used to throw tantrums because he wouldn't get any votes and keep deleting and re-uploading his work. lol

'>

Genisys/Guile/Galefer, is that you? Shall I add another Sockpuppet name to your list?

-420
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               

420 wrote...

TSMDude wrote...

Jackal_GB wrote...

There was a scripter who used to throw tantrums because he wouldn't get any votes and keep deleting and re-uploading his work. lol

'>

Genisys/Guile/Galefer, is that you? Shall I add another Sockpuppet name to your list?

-420

I think TSM Dude was merely poking fun at the same target as you 420. He and the various "G" incarnations are not one and the same. (TSM Dude does have a few dozen more alias' though '>)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_420]

               

kalbaern wrote...

(TSM Dude does have a few dozen more alias' though '>)

TSMDude, is that you?

-420
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TSMDude]

               

420 wrote...

kalbaern wrote...

(TSM Dude does have a few dozen more alias' though '>)

TSMDude, is that you?

-420

No I am not Guile at all nor Kal. I do have a lot of names and some are more well known than others but this is my only one on this board.

On the CEP Boards I am crazedmages. On the Vault I have 5 though have never pulled any of my content except for one under a different name when I screwed something up and could not fix it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_420]

               

TSMDude wrote...

420 wrote...

kalbaern wrote...

(TSM Dude does have a few dozen more alias' though '>)

TSMDude, is that you?

-420

No I am not Guile at all nor Kal. I do have a lot of names and some are more well known than others but this is my only one on this board.

On the CEP Boards I am crazedmages. On the Vault I have 5 though have never pulled any of my content except for one under a different name when I screwed something up and could not fix it.

Is that you 420?

-420

P.S. Oh, and just to sort of steer this thread back toward the topic. I find the search tool for NWVault kinda iffy. Even when you type in the exact title of a post it sometimes just can't find it but if you type in some other thing that is sort of related, like it may be a word in the description or the author's name, then it can find it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Androrc]

               I looked at the full listing for prefabs and looked at the dates corresponding to the last modification of the files inside the .zip, though, so it seems like the original file's post is really gone.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Invisig0th]

               Let me state up front that I'm not sure I would personally consider a prefab to be "original custom content". In my mind, prefabs fall into a gray area in between. That said....

Jackal_GB wrote...
If you have a file that is not breaking any copyrights (another reason some files are deleted) and you feel it has value to the community, by all means upload it yourself. If you have the original authors name, be sure to credit that person.

I completely disagree with this advice.  Re-uploading someone else's unmodified custom content work with the intent of circumventing their decision to not make that content available online is a very bad idea, for several reasons.

To start with, certain content authors have removed particular content for very good practical reasons  The example above of an unfixed bug which was found only after the upload was posted is a perfectly valid reason to remove soemthing. If the author does not feel that the work is up to their quality standards, you should obviously respect their wishes on that matter.

Reposting an author's pulled content with no modifications shows a complete disrespect for that author's opinion on whether or not that content should be available. You run the very real risk of making that original author extremely angry with you (and possibly many other NWN custom content authors and community members as well) if you do not respect the wishes of the original author regarding the content they created.  Whether or not you agree with their decision is irrelevant. It's their work, not yours.

If you do upload someone else's original work without modifications, you may also run into some amount of trouble with the NWVault staff. If the author was upset enough to remove their content, it's a safe bet they will be even more upset by your attempt to repost their work contrary to their wishes. And if that original author asks the staff of NWVault to remove what you uploaded,  I'm quite confident it will be removed immediately. So your upload would in most cases just get deleted anyway.

So as tempting as it may be, uploading someone else's unmodified work when it is likely that the original author explicltly wishes it to not be available is just not a good idea.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Invisig0th, 18 décembre 2010 - 10:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               

Invisig0th wrote...

Let me state up front that I'm not sure I would personally consider a prefab to be "original custom content". In my mind, prefabs fall into a gray area in between. That said....

Jackal_GB wrote...
If you have a file that is not breaking any copyrights (another reason some files are deleted) and you feel it has value to the community, by all means upload it yourself. If you have the original authors name, be sure to credit that person.

I completely disagree with this advice.  Re-uploading someone else's unmodified custom content work with the intent of circumventing their decision to not make that content available online is a very bad idea, for several reasons.

To start with, certain content authors have removed particular content for very good practical reasons  The example above of an unfixed bug which was found only after the upload was posted is a perfectly valid reason to remove soemthing. If the author does not feel that the work is up to their quality standards, you should obviously respect their wishes on that matter.

Reposting an author's pulled content with no modifications shows a complete disrespect for that author's opinion on whether or not that content should be available. You run the very real risk of making that original author extremely angry with you (and possibly many other NWN custom content authors and community members as well) if you do not respect the wishes of the original author regarding the content they created.  Whether or not you agree with their decision is irrelevant. It's their work, not yours.

If you do upload someone else's original work without modifications, you may also run into some amount of trouble with the NWVault staff. If the author was upset enough to remove their content, it's a safe bet they will be even more upset by your attempt to repost their work contrary to their wishes. And if that original author asks the staff of NWVault to remove what you uploaded,  I'm quite confident it will be removed immediately. So your upload would in most cases just get deleted anyway.

So as tempting as it may be, uploading someone else's unmodified work when it is likely that the original author explicltly wishes it to not be available is just not a good idea.

I only partially disagree with reposting someone elses stuff. I'll avoid the age old arguements on "who owns what" when it comes to content though.

Would I repost an old module? I can't envision an instance where I might. Then again, I rarely download modules either and prefer to make my own stuff.

Would I repost deleted scripts? If I used them already and knew they filled a gap that nothing else on the Vault did, then Yes, there's a good chance I'd repost them for others as well.

Would I repost deleted haks? In most cases I would in a flash, but only if I knew that someone else's posted module or an active PW required them.

In all cases I'd attempt to PM or Email the original creators as well as make sure they are creditted in the reposts. I actually had a case happen a few years ago when a certain author deleted their haks from the vault. After Emailing them though, they reposted them themselves. Had they not, I know I would have as they were a requirement for an active PW at the time. Whether something gets reposted on NWN Vault or just posted as a download on someone's private forums, I consider it a repost and follow the same logic.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Invisig0th]

               And in the case you cited, if the author had decided not to repost and if you had then proceeded to upload it contrary to their wishes, they almost certainly would have complained to the NWVault staff and the item almost certainly would have been removed immediately. Thank you for demonstrating my point so clearly.

Whether or not something is allowed to be available on the NWVault site is based on the decisions of the original author and the staff of NWVault. If an author explicitly states that they do not want their work on NWVault, having third parties upload that same unmodified content only results in extra work for the NWVault staff when they are forced to either dis-approve or delete that submission after the fact.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Invisig0th, 19 décembre 2010 - 12:27 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_420]

               

Invisig0th wrote...

So as tempting as it may be, uploading someone else's unmodified work when it is likely that the original author explicltly wishes it to not be available is just not a good idea.

Too late.

-420
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jackal_GB]

               In a perfect world, I could agree that getting an authors permission would be the right thing to do. But, the NWN world is far from perfect.

I had one guy throw some extra tiles in one of my submissions and he released it as his own hak. I had worked on it for hundreds of hours and only it had been on the vault for a month. I hadn't even gotten the chance to add to the content. My disapproval at his submission resulted in comments to the effect of "get over it" from who people I considered respected content makers. The attitude seemed to be, once it's on the vault it becomes fair game. Not an attitude that I, nor most others would agree with, but it happens.

No-one has ever asked my permission to repackage what I created. All I ever expect is to be credited for my work. The CEP never contacted me when they used my content in their haks.
I was honoured to be included, but it would have been nice to be asked. They did credit me, so it was all good.

This particular prefab in question is 8 years old, I left it up to the OP to decide it's worthiness. If the author of the prefab claims ownership and wants it removed, I'm sure if he/she is still around can contact the vault administrator an have it deleted.
just my 2 cents on the matter. It is based on my experiences as a custom content maker, not some black and white idea of what should or shouldn't be. I wish things were that simple.  '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Jackal_GB, 19 décembre 2010 - 01:41 .