My First Tileset

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               Very good Renzatic, now you only need to make an extra texture with leaves for summer theme
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Renzatic]

                

Calvinthesneak wrote...
The taper is off a little, but it's not enough to be seriously noticible unless you nitpick.

Yeah, I couldn't get a more realistic taper to look quite right. I tried doing some branches angled down a little steeper without any lift in the middle, but it ended up looking too flat and out of place. I just finally settled on what you see in my shots there. It's a little...er...fluffy, but it fits in well with the rest.

Hopefully no one else notices. '>

Lord Sullivan wrote...

now you only need to make an extra texture with leaves for summer theme

I could probably swing that. I'm already planning on doing a deep snow set using the same tiles to go along with the story I've got worked out. Doing a summer set wouldn't be too hard, specially since it'd mostly just be a texture swap.

Okay, next up I'm starting on a grass clump and a bush, then I'll be porting all this ingame. I want to get at least a couple of alpha mapped models in there so I can play with the nodal hierarchy alpha cookie cutter thingamajig.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Renzatic]

                

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

a Tile in NWN is 10 meters by 10 meters. Period. If your objects are larger in either "X" or "Y" direction then you must slice them at the 10 meter mark. Height doesn't seem to be much of an issue, but 10 meter tall buildings are very rare, even in today's world with the exception of the bigger cities. (Yes, I know, there are arguments about that, but consider the reality of your own home, or your neighbors home, again, excluding bigger cities or apartment buildings etc).

Okay, quick question about this. When you say 10 meters, do you mean to say that no object can be more than 10 meters in length and height, or that no object can cross over the 10 meter mark as defined by the tiles?

This is my current 2x2 tile setup without any of the frills.



(littke aside...Yeah, it says 2km, but that's because measurements are off between Modo and Max by a factor of 10. It'll be 20m x 20m in Max).

Now my depot is longer than 10m. I can slice it in half and fix that no problem. But it's not wider than 10m. So does that mean I just slice it in the middle and fix it, or do I have to slice it both length and width to align with the cuts on the tiles below it?

Edit: and when you say sliced, do you mean an added row of edges, or unweld the vertices at the 10m mark?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Renzatic, 17 décembre 2010 - 04:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy__six]

               The only real restriction with the 10m mark is that your walkmesh must not go over 500cm on either the X or Y axis. You should also make sure you have no overlapping on the walkmesh (think of it like draping a cloth over the scene). The rest of the model can pretty much do whatever it likes - just so long as you can get it to look right in the tileset system. I regularly drop bushes and other low-profile decoration off the edges of tiles which helps get rid of the tiled look somewhat.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _six, 17 décembre 2010 - 04:37 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Renzatic]

               

_six wrote...

The only real restriction with the 10m mark is that your walkmesh must not go over 500cm on either the X or Y axis. You should also make sure you have no overlapping on the walkmesh (think of it like draping a cloth over the scene). The rest of the model can pretty much do whatever it likes - just so long as you can get it to look right in the tileset system. I regularly drop bushes and other low-profile decoration off the edges of tiles which helps get rid of the tiled look somewhat.

Not quite sure I follow you on the "over 500cm on either the X or Y". Are you saying it can't go 500cm over the 10mm mark, or each walkmesh can't be more than that (which means you'll have a minimum 4 walkmeshes per tile)?

Everything else seems pretty good though. I think it's about time I start getting all this ingame.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__six]

               Oh, er, I think the confusion here may be one of units, my bad. Basically the tile must have a single square walkmesh which is 10 metres by 10 metres (ie up to 500cm away from the model source in every direction). The only real requirement is that the walkmesh be exactly that size and not feature any overlaps (unless you're deliberately being clever with it, as there a few exceptions when overlaps can actually be useful).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Renzatic]

                So when you say no overlaps, you mean that you can't make walkmeshes per object (other than placables), right?

On that assumption, I made this...

Walk Mesh

It's divided into one mesh per tile. The only thing I'm worried about is the roof. I had to hang it over the 10m mark to get it to cover the roof. But hell, I don't even know if I need the roof in there anyway. It's not exactly like anyone's gonna be walking on it. So if it causes any problems I can just delete it no problem.

Edit: Just read this. Looks like this is actually alot simpler than I thought. Be back with a screenshot in a sec.

Okay, so if I read that right, a walkmesh should look more like this:



Man, if that's the case, I wish I read that two hours ago. Would've been a helluva lot less tedious.

Edit 2:

Okay. I have now finished up the depot. I cleaned up the textures, added in the grass, and painted the shadows on the building. Still a couple of things I don't like, like how the corners still look too sharp, and how the big door always sticks out no matter how much tweakery I do. But this is it. The depot that's going ingame. I've spent a week on it. I'm moving on to other tiles in the set.

ka-doosh

This is a fullbright shot from Max. No fancy tricks other than however Max filters the textures. It should look about like that ingame, fingers crossed.

Wow. 4 hours in front of the computer working on all this. I'm calling it a day, folks. '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Renzatic, 17 décembre 2010 - 09:10 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy__six]

               Actually, you should include a (very) rough outline of the building on the walkmesh. This is because without a 3d mesh the engine won't calculate lines of sight or projectile trajectories properly, so with your walkmesh you'll end up having arrows shooting through the building. Don't including any overhanging areas such as the edges of the roof, though - and add cutouts for any parts of the interior (like doorways) that should be walkable. Here's a fairly simple example of a working walkmesh.



http://nwn1cc.com/si...it/walkmeshxmpl
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lord Sullivan]

               To help you understand some standards here are some representations

Standard Bioware Tile measurements/placement of vertices;



and how to properly set tiles/tilegroups in the tilesetname.SET file;



That might help, if you have any questions, ask away.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:02 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               Been away for a few days, sorry...



_six and Lord Sullivan are giving you pretty good tips here.



A couple extra notes, just so you are aware of them.



Walkmesh surface type 7 (non-walkable) IS NOT blocking to projectiles as _six mentioned.  I have seen many tilesets out there where folks have incorrectly edited the wok (walkmesh) to use type 7 faces and this can cause serious issues in game.  As _six mentioned, you should use a wall face, using type 2 faces for any raised, blocking objects.  You don't need to get carried away with it though.  IE, for a small tree/bush that can bee seen 'around' or 'shot through', a flat type 7 face will work.  Fences/walls should always use a type 2 face.



As Lord Sullivan mentioned with the .set file, there are some inconsistencies with what you see in game, and how the game reads the .set file for GROUPS.  Not how it reads them for the actual tiles themselves.



looking at your group, a 2x2 grouping, from the front (say standing on your tracks), your tiles should be named starting lower left, lower right, upper left, upper right as

in:

[TILE1]

Model=tctr01_w01_01

...

[TILE2]

Model=tctr01_w02_01

...

[TILE3]

Model=tctr0_w03_01

...

[Model=TILE4]

Model=tctro1_w004_01

...

etc...



Now that they are named, and actually added to the set in that order, when you create the GROUP entry, you would enter



[GROUPS]

1

[GROUP0]

Name=TrainStation

StrRef=xxxx <-- this number is used ONLY if you are attempting to map it to a .tlk file entry.

Rows=2

Columns=2

Tile0=4

Tile1=3

Tile2=2

Tile3=1





I am mentioning this because it can cause some confusion when you go to dig up a group out of a set file... say by opening an area in the toolset.  When you paint that area down, the tiles would be oriented towards you, in the opposite of their entry in the groups section, ie, your Station, if painted in lower left corner of an area, would 'appear' to be entered as tile0 ->4, instead of the way that they are entered in the groups section of tiles4->1 from opposite corner.





Tileset naming conventions, while not always followed by everyone, are generally:



tcxxx_x00_00



where the tcxxx can be whatever you really want, it is generally started with a 'tc' for tileset, the xxx bit can be whatever you want, but it should be consistent.  The x00 bit is a 'grouping' of tiles that are used in specific settings.  Generally, in Bioware tilesets, the first couple letters 'a,b,c,d,e' are for terrains.  'f' is sort of random, and not generally used.  'g' is used for walls, and so is 'h'.  'i' and 'j' are generally streams (water streams, lava streams', and then most times groupings skip a few letters before going into actual buildings/features of a tileset.   I chose 'w' above, just simply because that is generally a section of a tileset that is used for actual groups.  



IE, the upper letters are more generally used for group entries, buildings and such.  



In Bioware tilesets, they have two different ways of entering group information.  Some, just use the straight w01 -> w04 as entered above.  Sometimes, when you investigate a Bioware tileset, they alternated the columns AND the numbers, so, you might have w01, x01, w02, x02.  entered in the set as x02,w02,x01,w01 order.  



Gets confusing, but having it explained may help when you go to figure out what letters/tile numbers are available in a given set that you wish to add tiles to.



Anyway, questions, comments, frustrations etc, fire away.  As you can see, there are many folks here that are willing to help you learn.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Renzatic]

                So basically it'll need to look something like this...

Walkmesh Redux

...but looking at Six's example, I'm guessing I'm allowed a little more flexibility. As long as it maintains a gridlike shape, so I can define the walkpaths and materials in the .set file, I'm good, right?

Edit: Bannor Bloodfist, thanks. That helps tremendously. All the tutorials I've found only show you how to replace basic tiles, and only give you a quick rundown of the .set files. Nothing nearly as indepth as what you've given me above.

I've still got alot of questions, obviously. Mainly on how to set everything up for efficiency and ease of use. But your info gives me a great starting point to work with.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Renzatic, 17 décembre 2010 - 08:14 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy__six]

               

Renzatic wrote...

As long as it maintains a gridlike shape, so I can define the walkpaths and materials in the .set file, I'm good, right?

Well, a grid structure is good yes - that also makes it much more efficient for the engine to calculate creatures' paths across tiles. Although the template it uses as a base for pathfinding is indeed defined in the .set file. As for the materials, there are a standard set of material types that are listed both in NWMax (I forget quite where) and in the file surfacemat.2da. To set them you should apply NWMax's AuroraWalkmesh modifier to your object, then apply the relevant material ID based on these numbers. Probably the most useful are as follows...

1 - dirt: with dust cloud vfx
2 - obscuring: blocks movement as well as line of sight and projectiles
3 - grass: auto-generates 3d grass if specified in the .set file
4 - stone
5 - wood
6 - water: walkable with water splash vfx
7 - no-walk: does not block line of sight or projectile paths

The rest are, for the most part, just variations on these.

Hopefully everything isn't turning out to be information overload for ya '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _six, 17 décembre 2010 - 09:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Renzatic]

               

_six wrote...

Hopefully everything isn't turning out to be information overload for ya '>

Information overload? Yeah, that about halfway explains it. But I'll preservere. I'm the stoic type. '>

Anyway, I think I'm pretty well set up and ready to go. I managed to track down a pretty decent tileset tutorial on Bioware's site, and I've got the latest version of NWMax up and running. Other than having to find equivalent actions in NWMax to stuff that's referrenced to the scripts in the tutorial, I shouldn't have too much trouble. With luck, I'll have everything ingame by Sunday at the latest.

"With luck" being the key word here. I'll probably have another dozen questions to ask here real soon. Just...just...be patient with me. I'm a noob.

Thanks again for the help, everyone! Here I go! '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Eradrain]

               Believe me when I say, I f*cked a mermaid I'm just happy that another talented modeler has found his way to NWN, and I'm sure the rest of the modding community feels the same way.  Keep your questions coming, by all means!  I doubt that you'll find a lack of helpful answers, no matter how many questions you ask. '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Eradrain, 18 décembre 2010 - 05:14 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Renzatic]

               

Eradrain wrote...

Believe me when I say, I f*cked a mermaid I'm just happy that another talented modeler has found his way to NWN, and I'm sure the rest of the modding community feels the same way.  Keep your questions coming, by all means!  I doubt that you'll find a lack of helpful answers, no matter how many questions you ask. '>

You f*cked a mermaid? How? I thought they were fish on the bottom.

Actually, I dunno if I want an answer to that question.  

And the helpful bit? Yup. Yall have been very accomodating, and I greatly appreciate it. As for more questions? They're coming.

...right now.

Okay, I know how to layout the tiles in the .set file, and I have a very good idea of how to do the walk mesh. For the latter, I'm guessing I lay down an Aurorabase helper on the walk mesh model, set it to walk mesh from the dropdown menu, name it the same as the tile I intend on it being attached to, and it should export as a .wok file. It seems easy in theory, but I'm going to do that later. Right now I just want the geometry ingame.

Right now, I've got my tiles in front of me. Each one has an Aurorahelper attached, all named from bottom left, bottom right, top left, top right as tcdt_a01_01 to _a02_01, ect (I set the letter as a instead of w becuase of the tutorial I'm reading, I don't want to diverge too far from it). Now that i have the helpers attached, do I export all the geometry in one big lump, or do each tile individually? Do the names in the .set file look to the aurorahelpers and not to the name of the .mdl file? If I have to export each tile individually, how do I get my depot in there? It's a single object, and spans across all the tiles. I'd have to break it up to fit it on each tile to export.

But then again, Six said I didn't have to do that. But then again, the tutorial is only showing me how to export into 2x2 group using a bunch of separated tiles. It's all confusing, and contradictory, and damn...my poor head.

I'll see if I can solve this myself while waiting for a response. And people? I swear I'll be less obnoxious with the questions once I get this ingame. '>