What are the limits of nwn?

[Legacy_420]

               Only some of the .2da limits were increased as of the 1.69 patch.



There are limits to the number of blueprints you can have, too many results in the DM client crashing. There are also limits to the size of .hak files and the total number of resources you can have in your module. Lastly there are limits to the maximum amount of specific content, like shields. CEP has reached the limit for large shields for example.



-420
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               If you are talking about general NWN limits then there is some info rather about game mechanics.

- no custom ranged weapon can have any ammo linked to it - this means its not possible to create new ranged weapon (why CEP (v1) has one in their baseitems is mystery)
- no custom weapon can have the weapon feats assigned to it (neither custom or standard) (linx NWNX allows this however)
- is said, its not possible to create new spell with grenade animation the current grenades are hardcoded (however this can be workarounded in script to check item tag)
- the NWN character creator cannot show custom base classes (this has been solved by nwmain hack though its not public yet, hope i get this for my patch) or races (no way to workaround this as its GUI) neither can show proper alignments based on modified 2das.
- we cannot create new spellcaster class with using spellbook
EDIT: no other class than cleric can cas spontaneous
- we cannot create new metamagic with the same usage as the default (automatic metamagic is possible though)
- epic spell radial menu is limited to 6choices, if you add one more the game crashes if player try to open sub-radial
- only 5 subradials is possible for single spell
- not possible to allow tenth and higher spell levels
- we cannot create a new GUI and show them through scripting
- we cannot create new "skin-changing" visual effect, nor beam
- we cannot create new weapon VFX effect
- the maximal level possible is 255, after that NWN crashes (note without NWNX the max is 40 unfortunately)
- the maximum ammount of animation for character is limited to 20
- the maximal ability score is 255, after that it rollover
- the ability bonus cap is +12, attack bonus cap is +20, skill bonus cap is +50, attack descrease is 40IIRC but not sure, ability decrease cap is dunno but capped really (NWNX can change it however)
- the maximal number of attacks NWN can show is around 7 (not sure now), others are just rolled, no animation
- the minimal dex bonus from armor is 1, value of 0 works like unlimited, also is not possible to make two armors with the same armor AC bonus but different arcane penalty etc.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 22 août 2010 - 11:18 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_B_Harrison]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

- the maximum ammount of animation for character is limited (was 10 before 1.69, now not sure)

Anim slots 11-20 were added in 1.69, IIRC.

... - also is not possible to make two armors with the same armor AC bonus but different arcane penalty etc.

This is actually possible, by exploiting armor.2da's row cap of 255 (new base armour values starting at rows 256, 512, and so on loop back to 0 base AC). But it's still a limitation, because the higher rows still count as heavy armor (which is important to proficiencies and some hard-coded feats).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par B_Harrison, 22 août 2010 - 09:04 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

B_Harrison wrote...

This is actually possible, by exploiting armor.2da's row cap of 255 (new base armour values starting at rows 256, 512, and so on loop back to 0 base AC). But it's still a limitation, because the higher rows still count as heavy armor (which is important to proficiencies and some hard-coded feats).

awesome, i will look into 3.5 SRD if there are heavy armors that could benefit from this, thanks
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_invisig0th_*]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...
- is said, its not possible to create new spell with grenade animation the current grenades are hardcoded (however this can be workarounded in script to check item tag)

I'm not sure what you are referring here or whether it is actually correct, but custom grenades can be made. I have successfully made custom grenades with custom models (globe palm fruit from Barrier Peaks module and also several futuristic grendades), and they work just fine. Custom grenade model is thrown and bounces on ground, and then custom spell script is run without a problem.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par invisig0th, 22 août 2010 - 11:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

invisig0th wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...
- is said, its not possible to create new spell with grenade animation the current grenades are hardcoded (however this can be workarounded in script to check item tag)

I'm not sure what you are referring here or whether it is actually correct, but custom grenades can be made. I have successfully made custom grenades with custom models (globe palm fruit from Barrier Peaks module), and it works just fine. Custom grenade model is thrown and bounces on ground, and then custom spell script is run without a problem.

I heard it somewhere, thats why I wrote "its said". I never tested it, I make custom grenades by the workaround I described, it was only for monsters anyway.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_invisig0th_*]

               The grenades I made can be used by PCs, so I think you can cross that one off your list.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par invisig0th, 22 août 2010 - 11:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Limits of 255 exist for heads and armour/clothing parts, I believe.  Ditto for cloaks.  (It's really 256, but 0 - i.e. none - counts as one.)

EDIT: Thanks to Jez for spotting my typo.  '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 23 août 2010 - 11:59 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Jez_fr]

               Typo Este meaned 256 instead of 266 '>

Other known limits are (note that I collated these for myself during long years of reading, so some limits here might:be outdated, but I think they are still correct, otherwise I'd like to know):
- if a 2da can go after 256 lines, its limit is then 65 535.
- placeables.2da is limited at 65.535
- loadscreen.2da as a limit of 65.535 but only 255 are displayable at the same time in toolset per category/setting, so you can have 255 categories each one including as much as 255 loadscreens.
- limit of haks number is 56, at least for nwn server, after 56 nwnserver doesn't start anymore
- limit of tilesets in a module is 80, its actually 100 as of 1.69 patch but including vanilla NWN ones which are 20, that leave only 80 slots.(edited, thanks to _Six)

- concerning assets all game executables have their own limits which sometimes are not the same, so because something works in Aurora, doesn't mean it will in NWN solo, or on a server or even less with DM client.
- NWN server seems to have hard time to handle hak with more than 16.000 files, its safer to limit one hak content to 15.000 files.
- DM client crash if there is more than 15-16.000 files to handle in a module, you can check the number of files when the module is open in aurora, in /modules/Temp0 (or highest TempX) folder
It's unclear if it also take into account others assets not included in haks, like music, portraits and others (supposedly they account toward the 15.000 limit too).

At least that's what I noted these 4 last years, might need some updates.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Jez_fr, 23 août 2010 - 01:42 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy__six]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

... Also the more polygons the longer it takes to load ... If its tileset, game loading every area slower - Worms tilesets has this issue, even Caste/Rural loads quite long.

A bit late responding to this, but actually I've found the number of tiles in the tileset have as big or more of an effect on loading times than polycounts. NWN was really built to run 1-200 tile tilesets at most, so tilesets like TNO that are in the thousands in terms of tile numbers can take a long time even if those tiles aren't particularly large to load - and particularly with Worms' tilesets, as he has an unfortunate habit of basically including TNO in all his sets as well.

That's also why trying to place a terrain down in the toolset for the first time using Worms' tilesets often freezes the toolset for several seconds (on my machine, anyway).

Jez_fr wrote...

- limit of tilesets in a module is 30, its
actually 50 but including vanilla NWN ones which are 20, that leave
only 30 slots.

Wasn't this raised to 100 in 1.69?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _six, 23 août 2010 - 12:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

_six wrote...

A bit late responding to this, but actually I've found the number of tiles in the tileset have as big or more of an effect on loading times than polycounts.

Yeah, very probably, the DOA combo city/rural tileset is at least with polygons and textures very close to standard city/rural, but still takes very much time to load.

However I think the polygon count affect it as well. IIRC the worm swamp (I used it like two years back) do not have too much tiles and still takes very long time to load.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jez_fr]

               

_six wrote...

Jez_fr wrote...

- limit of tilesets in a module is 30, its
actually 50 but including vanilla NWN ones which are 20, that leave
only 30 slots.

Wasn't this raised to 100 in 1.69?

1.69 patch notes says you are right _Six!
Im editing my post to avoid confusion, thanks =)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__six]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

However I think the polygon count affect it as well. IIRC the worm swamp (I used it like two years back) do not have too much tiles and still takes very long time to load.

Aye. Especially with Worms' tilesets. While very beautiful, due to bugs and polygon budgets that are really high even on objects where they're not making a noticeable difference  they are pretty much the slowest tilesets on the vault ingame. I recall the walkmeshes in particular are some of the worst made I've ever seen and have a habit of making pathfinding really slow.

That said, they do look absolutely great.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _six, 24 août 2010 - 04:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               Well I think I've just come up against a limit. It would appear that there is a lowish upper limit for certain itp file entries. I've currently got a placeablepal.itp file with 34 ID entries and the toolset ignores any further entries. Fortunately I had got all the entries that I needed for the section I was working on. Unfortunately I had other sections I wanted to add which amounted to a further 90+ entries that won't now be added. I am currently getting someone else's hak files to work together and it seemed logical to put the 1300+ entries into new categories rather than clutter the original Bioware ones, which is what I will have to do now.



TR
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               The palettes IDs are limited to 255 (I used the 255 to hide my blueprints in patch 1.70 - just temporary workaround)



The reason you are not seeing changes might be that you uses CEP and you didnt added the modified pallete into top hak. Or you edited the bad palette, in module there is xxxpalcus.itp which does contain not just categories but also content of all categories and is recreated at module opened and anytime you refresh pallete.