Author Topic: If you can enable shiny water, can you run a (really) quick FPS test for me?  (Read 1727 times)

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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EDIT:  Thanks for the help, everyone!  I'm good for NVidia, would love some more ATI folks' data!     '<img'>


 


All you have to do is be in a basic area with water and have shinywater on.  Like this.  But you don't have to be by a big body of water or anything.  As long as you can see any amount of water on your screen, you're good.  It also doesn't matter if the shinywater looks good or if it's borked.


 


Then hit the tilde (~) to bring up the console, type in fps and hit enter.  It'll spit back a number.  Without moving the camera, maybe type it a few times to get an idea what the range is.  Or you could use the command trace fps, which'll print a live fps count in the lower left hand corner of your screen.


 


Doesn't matter what your resolution is or anything else.  


 


I just want to know what that FPS number you get is.  Don't worry about the number being super precise, but if (for instance) it's 28-29, say 28-29 instead of 30.


 


Thanks!


 


Edit: I'm guessing that it's never going to come back higher than 30.  I'd like to see how accurate that guess is.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Thayan

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I created a small 4x4 rural area that was completely water except for an island/grass tile in the middle. FPS ranged from 82 up to 98. So average of about 90, I guess.


 


The trace fps number flew by too quickly for me to really make any use of that command.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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Thanks!  You were getting 90FPS with shiny water on?  What kind of video card do you have in your machine, if you don't mind me asking?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Thayan

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Yes, shiny water is on. This is on my work laptop right now (shhh - don't tell anyone). It's a Lenovo W350 which I've had for a little over 3 years now. The Device Manager is showing two Display Adapters - Intel HD Graphics 4000, and another listed as NVIDIA Quadro K1000M. To be honest I'm not sure which one its using.


 


If this result isn't quite what you were expecting I can play around with some video settings as I don't have everything pegged to 'Best' in NWN. It's a slow day here at the moment... '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_AndrueD

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I make tropcal 8x8medium area with stream then use the camera that load with module.


 


These are 5 number I get wen not move camera at same place where module load and type fps pretty fast between tests:


17.4, 59.7, 40.0, 56.3, 57.4


 


I am thinking Thayan have better card than what in my box.


 


I only have CEP 2.3 install, no other hak or shader. 


My vcard nvidia nvs 315 on Win7 pro. Chip 3.4Ghz 64-bit AMD on HP Compaq Pro


 


Hope this help u. Good luck!


 


edit:  almost forget... I never turn shiny water off since I load game on this box.  U want fps with turned off also?


oh, also I think Thayan uses nvidia cuz i have radeon also as integrate grphx but card always override integrate unless you change setting


               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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@Thayan - This is a great surprise, actually!  If this is really doing shinywater, those are pretty awesome results.  No need to play around with video settings, as long as it's really displaying shinywater.  NWN should be running like a dream for you all across the board, right?  I am mostly testing on an AMD K53TA-BBR6 (with a Radeon) and I'm topping out at 18-24 FPS nomatter how little shinywater is showing.  I've looked at the low-level OpenGL calls going to the card during shinywater and it's not doing enough work justify eating up 40fps (my card usually runs at 60fps), so I'm trying to understand why it always seems to drop that low.  I'd also love to know if you get similar performance from your home machine.


 


@AndrueD - Perfect.  So it sounds like you're getting about 50-ish FPS when you can see shinywater on your screen too, yes?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_AndrueD

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Yah, OTR.  I am thinking maybe first number low cuz not enough time after module load.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_AndrueD

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Other thing I wonder is what DirectX version we use.  Not sure how I check this but remember read old tech topics and makes difference sometime.


 


edit: just figure out how to find.  Mine is DirectX 11



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Thayan

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Here is a screenshot at 92 FPS if that helps. That is shiny water....I think....?


fps.jpg


 


Unfortunately, I seldom play NWN on my work machine, although I do use it for working in the toolset. But I'll have to take it home sometime and try out a module or two since it *seems* to be 'good'. I'll try again later today from my home machine and let you know what that shows up as.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Gruftlord

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               For me what really hogs performance are too many polygons in conjunction with environment shadows. Certain CEP models or Project Facelift do that on large areas. FPS drops to around 20, while i can usually maintain 120 in many areas. Though to be honest, NWN's performance is all over the place. Horrible dips when creatures (horses) and PCs load, as well as massive viewing direction dependent fps. There's everything to be had between 20 and 120. Never saw a diference with or without shiny water, either. GTX765m
               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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@AndrueD - Well, the DirectX might have something to do with something, but from everything I can see, NWN's graphical performance really has the most to do with OpenGL.  Because NWN uses OpenGL.  This aspect of it has, unfortunately, always caused problems or at least complications.  What happened is when Bioware was making NWN, they were working very closely with NVidia.  And so when it came to how they chose to draw things on the screen, they used the "NVidia way".  So when people ran NWN on ATI machines, performance wasn't typically up to snuff.  So Bioware sort of redid things and tried to make both work decently.  But this situation got even more complicated because ATI doesn't really do that great a job with OpenGL, on their end, either.  Fast forward years and years later, to today, and when it comes to shinywater (and not, say, run-of-the-mill graphics stuff that NWN does, and which both NVidia and ATI do fine), it's a real toss-up what's going to happen on a given machine.  I have two computers to test ideas out on but getting feedback from the community about how NWN is actually playing with a given setting (in this case with shinywater) is super informative.  If NWN used DirectX for drawing things on the screen, all this mess would be so much simpler.


 


@Thayan - Perfect!  Yep!  Thanks for going the extra mile with the screenshot.  That's exactly what you should be seeing and if that's coming in at anything over 40FPS, especially, that's telling me a lot about why NWN might be behaving poorly under some conditions.  BTW, if you're into this sort of thing, I'm assuming that the big difference between your card and mine is probably in the drivers and what the cards actually support versus what has to be done on the CPU.  That any "modern" card is getting the kind of performance you are says some good things about how much support (at least in your specific card & drivers, but also NVidia) some of the funkier/clunkier graphics functions of NWN still have on modern pc's.

 
@Gruftlord - Yep, the shadows system in NWN is really accurate (for shadows in a 3D game) and also really "expensive".  Raw polygons don't seem to be don't seem to be, though.  The big dip when loading horses and PC's can mostly be attributed to uncompiled models and, because NWN draws basically everything you're looking at (whether it's behind something or not), anytime you're not using the default camera angle (i.e. console command "unlockcamera 0"), you're going to get slowdown ranging from "unfortunate" to "unplayable".  BTW, what kind of FPS are you getting with shiny water on in an area, generally? Or do you not notice any kind of hit, at all?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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GTX 750Ti


Area identical to Thayan's


 


Shiny water off -> 236 fps


Shiny Water on -> between 88 & 112 fps.


 


TR



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Gruftlord

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               I'll check later and let you know about the shiny fps.
Currently i have to play with shiny water disabled, due to using stereoscopic vision and the two not getting along nicely.

There's,a funny thing though. Nvidia's stereoscopic version is only running in dx9+ so in order to get it working, the stereo community had to write a openGL to dx9 wrapper.
Not sure if that also kicks in in 2D, but might it be worth a shot? If you want to fiddle with it, it can be found here:
http://3dsurroundgam...isionGames.html
               
               

               
            

Legacy_meaglyn

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"If NWN used DirectX for drawing things on the screen, all this mess would be so much simpler."


 


Not so much for us Linux client users '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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@Gruftlord - Interesting.  I'd looked at wrappers before and seen this one but I'm not sure how much it relies on specific NVidia commands.  There are a few other general wrappers out there, but they don't tend to work I think because NWN creates and destroys OpenGL "contexts" (read: "workspaces") and I suspect that confuses them.


 


@meaglyn - Indeed.