Difference between "Attack Nearest" and "Guard Me" for henchman target selection?

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               

I am playing a tank character in a module, in which my main character has sacrificed a lot of offensive power for defensive ability.  Default strategy for any battle is for my character to engage first, and then issue the command for henchmen to join once enemies have started attacking me.  Because I have sacrificed offensive firepower, I am relying on the henchmen to do the damage.

 

The problem is that my henchmen are poor at choosing targets.  Target choice makes a big difference in this module- Citadel.  Routine battles involve being outnumbered 2:1 or worse by a group of Impossible enemies with varied abilities, each group consisting of 2-4 different creature types with varied abilities.  Identifying and immediately killing the most dangerous enemy first is very, very important.

 

I have never understood how henchmen choose targets when commanded to "Attack Nearest," because they never seem to choose the target that looks to me like the nearest target.  I have felt that "Guard Me" has worked well in other modules, particularly when I am playing a tank character.  But in other modules it has never really been as important whom my henchmen attacked first, as long as my character was occupying the most dangerous target, I could hold out until my henchmen finally got around to assisting.

 

In Citadel, I have noticed one of my fighter who will go through periods of choosing a new target each round.  In cluttered battles, he frequently gets into situations where he can't attack because his target gets out of reach, and I have to issue a new "Guard Me" or "Attack Nearest" to get him to choose a target in reach.

 

Is there a difference between the way henchmen choose targets based on whether they are commanded to "Attack Nearest" or "Guard Me"?  Are there any tricks I can use to influence their targeting choice?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_AndrueD]

               

You try install Tony K AI?  I think that help me some time depend tho on kind of hench to control.  Not so much with archer but other attacks works better.

 

Only way I find to get hench very close at certain monster.. make hench & toon invis, make hench follow, then change to nearest attack at target. I use this when boss & minion mob fill room to get hench attacking boss. But if true seers, this not work cuz every time arrow or sword aims at hench, it stop following to attack that one.  When I keep clicking follow, hench will move past mob but must keep clicking follow even if toon in trouble.  Hiding works too but slower and most hench wear hvy armor meaning stealth poor.

 

Tony AI give more choice to what your hench will do and how it attack so donna need to fool around so much.

 

Attack Nearest mean monster closest to hench.  Guard Me mean hench attack monster that is attacking nearest PC no matter how far away from hench except canna be out of hench LOS or they either pick one farther away from PC or none if around corner.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Attack nearest will attack the target your character is currently attacking to. If no such target it may start attacking nearest enemy.

Guard me force henchman to attack the creature that is attacking your character. (if multiple enemies than it chooses latest one who attacked when you speak that command)

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               

I recently replayed the official campaigns.  It seemed to me that the henchman AI was a lot worse than I remembered.  In particular, I had a lot of trouble getting henchmen to sit back and use missile weapons.  It may have been the first time I played version 1.69, though I don't remember for sure, and I wondered if maybe that update changed henchman AI scripts.

 

Anyway, I felt I had better luck getting henchman to stay back and use missile weapons, rather than running up into melee, when I used Guard Me instead of Attack Nearest.  So I haven't been using Attack Nearest.  If Attack Nearest will get the henchmen to prefer the target my character is attacking, that will be ideal.  I'll use the combination of Stand Ground then Attack Nearest to see if I get better results in this module.

 

I like the TonyK AI, particularly the options on telling henchmen when to switch from missile to melee and back to missile.  Though I'd love to have that option for this module, I hesitate to override any of the module's custom scripts.  Many of the henchmen in Citadel have unique abilities, and they do make good use of their unique abilities and item abilities.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               Attack Nearest doesn't quite focus companions on one opponent, as in other RPGs. In theory, it does, but the player's focus can be lost at end of round, and companions are very easily distracted, I find.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

I recently replayed the official campaigns.  It seemed to me that the henchman AI was a lot worse than I remembered.  In particular, I had a lot of trouble getting henchmen to sit back and use missile weapons.  It may have been the first time I played version 1.69, though I don't remember for sure, and I wondered if maybe that update changed henchman AI scripts.

and you tried community patch? however tony k overrides it so you can use either or not both

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               

Using "Attack Nearest" seems to have better results for my melee fighter henchman.  I haven't yet had enough chaotic battles with him in which I can determine that he will be choosing the same target as my PC, but at least so far he's been taking one at a time, instead of switching targets repeatedly and getting stuck on out-of-reach targets.

 

I can't determine how my henchmen in missile combat are determining targets with "Attack Nearest."  I just did one of the tougher battles, in which I went with three archers as henchmen.  I kept them grouped back at a distance with the Stand Your Ground command, my character initiated the combat, Once the enemies started striking at my character, I issued the Attack Nearest command.  None of the archers fired at the target I targeted.  One of them targeted an enemy who looked closest to them.  The other two were choosing a target in the middle of the enemy group.  (However, since my henchmen were offscreen, I don't know for sure that they stayed group, or made extraneous movements that would have altered which target was nearest to the individual henchman.)

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lilura]

               

One thing that bothers me is companion reluctance to break invisibility when you order them to attack.

 

How hard would it be to tweak this?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

One thing that bothers me is companion reluctance to break invisibility when you order them to attack.

 

How hard would it be to tweak this?

Im not familiar with this, there is no "if invisible don't attack" code in vanilla AI. Can you explain in more depth?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               

One thing that bothers me is companion reluctance to break invisibility when you order them to attack.

 

How hard would it be to tweak this?

 

Do you use Tony K's AI by any chance? I, too, seem to encounter this problem.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lilura]

               

Under Improved Invisibility is seems to happen in HotU and Snow Hunt. Maybe others, too. I haven't tried Tony K's for a while, so not sure.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Under Improved Invisibility is seems to happen in HotU and Snow Hunt. Maybe others, too. I haven't tried Tony K's for a while, so not sure.

send me savegame where it happens i will take a look

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_rogueknight333]

               

One thing that bothers me is companion reluctance to break invisibility when you order them to attack...

 

I have noticed this bug (where an invisible henchman just stands and does nothing while a fight rages around him) crop up in a variety of modules, and have received complaints about it happening in my modules, but I have never been able to replicate it reliably. Sometimes the henchmen stop fighting, and sometimes they do not, in what appear to be identical circumstances.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               

It seems like it would be possible to have a Player Tool that the PC would use to click on an enemy and then the associates would keep after that enemy as their primary target. Further, it could also allow clicking a spot on the ground and, if in combat, the associates pick targets nearest that spot and, if not in combat, associates move to that spot. That would help with the old issue of "How do I get my associates to stand in front of me?"

 

Is there no such add-on yet? I don't know much about where to hook into the AI, but it seems like its within the realm of NW scripting and perhaps a 2DA change (to create it as a Player Tool). It could also be the activated power of an item without any 2DA changes, but I think that means it cannot be an instant feat. Such a tool would be hugely useful, IMO.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_meaglyn]

               

There is such a thing. It tries to do what most of what you describe.