Trent Oster again (11/16/2015) mentions the plans and obstacles for a NWN Overhaul

[Legacy_Tchos]

               

But it's unrealistic to expect it to be released on Steam, especially considering Neverwinter Nights 2 was available there for some time and then taken down.

 

NWN2 was taken down at the same time that all D&D related games were taken down from all of the major online shops, during the lawsuit between Atari and Hasbro over the rights to D&D video games.  It returned to the rest of the shops after the lawsuit was settled and the publisher was changed to Hasbro instead of Atari, but Steam was the exception.  Why only them?  Who knows.  Maybe not enough people asked for it to come back.  But it's still in their system, and everyone who bought it when it was available still has it in their accounts and can play it and redownload it as normal, so it shouldn't be difficult to make it available again if people ask.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               

NWN2 was taken down at the same time that all D&D related games were taken down from all of the major online shops, during the lawsuit between Atari and Hasbro over the rights to D&D video games.  It returned to the rest of the shops after the lawsuit was settled and the publisher was changed to Hasbro instead of Atari, but Steam was the exception.  Why only them?  Who knows.  Maybe not enough people asked for it to come back.  But it's still in their system, and everyone who bought it when it was available still has it in their accounts and can play it and redownload it as normal, so it shouldn't be difficult to make it available again if people ask.

 

Looks like people don't ask, then. '> And NWN2 is one thing, NWN1 is another. Even if there is a slight chance of NWN2 coming back to Steam, NWN1 is a far call.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lilura]

               

I think there is a profound lack of awareness with regard to NWN when it comes to even the hardcore RPG crowd (many of whom dismiss it outright, citing the OC), let alone your general gaming populace; at least compared to the Infinity Engine - older and primitive by comparison. My feeling is that this difference is attributable to the advent of EE and I'm unsure if NWN can regain a footing without an EE or similar.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               

@Lilura - I agree about the "lack of awareness" and even the bias against NWN because of the original campaign.  What I also find really strange is how deeply it's dismissed in certain circles, almost as some kind of ****-up, when it won six dozen awards including "actual awards" like a Bafta and several GDCA (industry) awards- not to mention being used by NATO and the US military for training.

 

Edit: LOL, word starred by the forum software is not the one you might think.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lilura]

               

I agree 100%. In some circles the dismissal borders on the obnoxious: a blanket hate for Aurora and its content that stems from the inadequacies of the OC that basically equals a refusal to try any of the wonderful user-made content of the past and present (user-made content, I might add, that in many cases surpasses the commercial classics praised by these blockheads).

 

If Beamdog reworked the OC (as per your Trent quote in the OP) and gave the engine a visual overhaul to bring in the casuals, then that would go along way to changing the perception of Aurora in general; but I don't see anything short of that doing so. NWN needs a wave, not a ripple.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               

I agree 100%. In some circles the dismissal borders on the obnoxious: a blanket hate for Aurora and its content that stems from the inadequacies of the OC that basically equals a refusal to try any of the wonderful user-made content of the past and present (user-made content, I might add, that in many cases surpasses the commercial classics praised by these blockheads).

 

If Beamdog reworked the OC (as per your Trent quote in the OP) and gave the engine a visual overhaul to bring in the casuals, then that would go along way to changing the perception of Aurora in general; but I don't see anything short of that doing so. NWN needs a wave, not a ripple.

 

Actually, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be even better if the EE of NWN had no built-in campaigns whatsoever. No, seriously - if there are people currently dismissing NWN because they can't see past the official campaigns, then they would be forced to do so if the game had no campaigns whatsoever. '> Only the toolset and a platform for launching user-made content.

 

I'm not saying I'd like that, but maybe that would be better in some twisted way. '>

 

But anyway, the only place I've seen NWN bashed is RPG Codex. Could you show me some other examples of people spitting on our beloved game?

 

Edit: Gosh, I've made the mistake of visiting RPG Codex just now. These people TRULY are blockheads.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lilura]

               

Actually, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be even better if the EE of NWN had no built-in campaigns whatsoever. No, seriously - if there are people currently dismissing NWN because they can't see past the official campaigns, then they would be forced to do so if the game had no campaigns whatsoever. '> Only the toolset and a platform for launching user-made content.

 

I'm not saying I'd like that, but maybe that would be better in some twisted way. '>

 

I don't think that's Beamdog's style... their preference seems to be toying with existing campaigns, making their own expansions (i.e, SoD), making the engine a lil' more friendly to current gen OS/hardware, stylizing UIs to suit tablets, and adding convenience tweaks that modders made a decade ago (in themselves those things mean nothing to me, btw. It's only the potential for putting NWN back on the map that I'm interested in). Their dev team is not talent heavy enough to make a great campaign, though I heard they hired Gaider recently as creative director...

 

Edit: Gosh, I've made the mistake of visiting RPG Codex just now. These people TRULY are blockheads.

 

The Codex are ok for the most part (I post there often, spruiking NWN mods here and there). But it's true that some of the current crop are largely resistant to NWN, perhaps because of the negative review of it given on the site (which only covered the OC). If not ignored entirely, NWN is held in low esteem across the board, not just on the Codex.

 

I used to be stubbornly resistant to NWN, too. I always thought the Infinity Engine RPGs were far superior and that NWN was a step down (in many respects, I still feel that). But it wasn't until I began to thoroughly explore the jungle of mods that I realized the potential of Aurora for delivering the single-player D&D adventures that I like to play. Some of them are eerily close to the feel of tabletop role-playing, and that really impressed me. I just wish NWN was turn-based and isometric, like The Temple of Elemental Evil: if ToEE availed of a toolset like Aurora, I would not be playing NWN. I would be playing my dream game.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

Hahahaha. RPG Codex people. They have no idea what NWN is.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Asymmetric]

               

Hahahaha. That Asymmetric guy. He had no idea what RPG Codex was - up until now '> . He has problems with that site though, search isn't working.

 

On a more serious note: I'd really like a EE for NWN. It would undoubtedly bring new players. But I have no idea how they could go about it. A graphic overhaul would be needed to make it appealing to the crowd and that's a lot of work, as the the standard tiles wouldn't cut it. I can't see them creating tilesets and other custom content. Gonna keep updating the CC tools though, in case they need them '> .

Otherwise maybe taking existing custom content with the premission of the creators is an option. Can't really imagine them doing that either though.

 

Back when NWN was first release it imho looked terrible compared to the pretty hand drawn background of BG 2. That's what(at first) kept me from trying it for a long time.

 

Realistically I don't see much chances for NWN EE because of publisher issues (Atari, Hasbro, WotC and whatnot ... messy). But I'll keep on dreaming.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bhaelrot]

               

For what it is worth, I think both Grani and henesua have combined to suggest a potential strategy.

 

NwN is NOT a "game" in the same way a cookbook or stovetop is not a meal. The OC is just a single Aurora recipe among countless recipes, and like most everything, does not appeal to all palates. The OC is not, nor has it ever been, the whole of NwN by any measure. 

 

Thus, I think the marketing should focus on the amazing possibilities of NwN. Emphasize and capitalize on the fact that players can make whatever game they can imagine, and instead of remaking and including the OC, which most folks agree is subpar at best, include one or more highly regarded fan created modules in the EE release. Choose diverse modules so as to give the doubters/haters/confused a few proven top notch examples of what can be accomplished with the power and flexibility of the Aurora Engine. This would probably be a lot cheaper and less of a legal headache than using the OC.

 

Grani hits a real sore spot, a gaping hole, and that is the lack of a client/platform from which players can easily discover, post and launch user-made content. This, in my most fervent of opinions, is an absolute must-have. If nothing but this and some updated graphics/UI were created it would probably bring NwN out from the dim shadows sufficiently to potentially garner enough interest that a legitimate update/upgrade/EE would become a more viable reality. NWVault is an excellent resource but it is a dinosaur and not user friendly when compared to something like the Steam Workshop.

 

*sigh 

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_OldTimeRadio]

               

@Grani - Currently?  The other place where you'll still find it is on the Beamdog forums- though it's slowly getting better.

 

@Asymmetric - Re: Your comment about "But I have no idea how they could go about it."  You're totally right about the tiles, for instance.  Like, even if Beamdog had a NWN:EE on their plate there's the matter of updated character and monster models and the tilesets.  I spend time specifically thinking about how one would go about overhauling the game with as little work as possible and after a really long time kicking it around, I at least came up with an approach for tilesets.  

 

The actual number of unique geometry elements in a tileset is usually really low.  I don't know how this would work in Blender, but in Max what you can do is run a script to identify all unique geometry in a scene and then turn them into instances.  So, if you had all the tiles in a tileset completely loaded up, you'd run that script (there are a lot of them floating around) and, for instance, all the barrels in the tileset (nomatter how they were oriented) would become one instanced object.  Then you just replace any one of the instanced objects and all of them in the scene change.  So you could up-detail a whole tileset pretty quickly using that method.  Obviously, there would be lots of straggler unique geometries, but I think they'd be vastly outweighed by the same old objects that the Bioware modelers cut and pasted across tiles.  I had the idea a few months ago but I had enough problems loading up the whole tilesets that I just put it on the back burner.  I would love to see somebody play around with this idea, though.  I did a bunch of little tests and it seemed like a "viable" option.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               

I'd give anything for a NWN:EE.

 

That said, I would also give anything for a ToEE:EE with a working toolset!

 

That just gets me drooling!!!

 

Well, off to play more Fallout 4.  Loving that ingame building!

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

And were those Enhanced Editions really successful? With the ammount of modding BG2 EE was never a consideration for me and lot of other ppls had same observations, in the end BG2:EE brought even more issues than there was in a first place. That was early release or prerelease when I heard about it the last time, but still there seems to be almost no point of this for a oldtimers who still like to play that game, who bought it years ago already and who still sometimes play it as they can get basically the same with few mods and much more.

 

In case of NWN there would be probably even less desire than in BG2 as we do have NWNX and NWNCX. I doubt that NWN:EE would brought anything even comparable of the posibilities we have right now. All we can hope for is maybe an improved graphic but this graphic will still be too oldschool for those who never tried NWN because of graphic and its age. Re-Release won't change it imo.

 

Idk how many new players get to BGII with EE but even if that was successfull, BGII is still rather linear-play-finish-leave game. Multiplayer is rather non existant. I wouldn't be so optimistic about significal player base increase that many dream for. Most players will probably play NWN just like BG2 - they will play the OC finish and leave.

 

Btw, do peoples really play BG2 on smartphones and tablets? lol

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

people do play on tablets.

 

As far as concerns about NWN EE go. As long as the people working on it consulted with the community the project could work. And they would be stupid not to given how much knowledge we have.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Lilura]

               

 

In case of NWN there would be probably even less desire than in BG2 as we do have NWNX and NWNCX. I doubt that NWN:EE would brought anything even comparable of the posibilities we have right now.

 

They would probably attempt to apply what the community has already achieved. For their Infinity Engine EEs they tapped into lots of stuff already done by the community: tools like Near Infinity and Weidu; mods like Tutu, fixpacks, big BIFF, tweakpacks, Sword Coast Stratagems etc. (those wisened to cynicism have other words for "tapped"). Beamdog also hired a few modders (e.g, aVENGER) and consult regularly with the SCS author (DavidW). I suspect their EEs were a success because they have a decent following and are now making an expansion for BG1 called Siege of Dragonspear, with aVENGER coding AI. They have also hired Gaider, not exactly a low-baller. This points to money in the bank and getting srs. Regardless of my thoughts on their content (thus far, I think it's subpar), I can't deny that more people are playing these games since they made the EEs and I think the tablet crowd has been a bonus for them. The forums are aflow with discussion about a game originally released 18 years ago.. people are talking about the stories, the characters, the lore, the tactics and the mods all over again - NWN could avail of that.


Yes, NWN has possibilities but its player base is diluted over multiple communities and the mainstream is largely ignorant of its prime virtues (Aurora toolset, community-made content). GoG is not doing it for NWN; last I checked the seven most recent topics were about technical issues and there is almost no discussion about CONTENT (i.e, playing the game, modding it, enjoying it). GoG has no community vibe to it: they go there to learn how to double-click the installer, then leave. The Codex and RPGWatch are resistant (they are in-depth news sites primarily concerned with spruiking commercial content), reddit is slow, this forum and the Vault are both slow (about playing the game) and GameFAQs has been dead and buried for a decade. The mainstream only know the official content and maybe a few famous mods, parroting them here and there on the forums as if that's all there is. They don't delve deeper and have not heard of Project Q, your patch, NWNX and NWNCX. They are also not prepared to learn how to beautify a module themselves using overrides and patch haks; and I can't blame them: it isn't like NWN and its new vault are EZ going for total newbies (though every effort that has been made to accommodate new players is commendable, as it's greatly needed). All this is just what I have observed over the last couple of years, btw.


Anyway, how do you propose to increase the player base without an EE.. the NWN community is ever-dwindling - or is it just stagnant in number? I mean, that's been happening for quite a while and it's no biggie for the "old-timers" who will stick with it through thick and thin; but I would like to see an influx of new blood in the mix and I don't see that happening all that much without something like NWN:EE.