Author Topic: Is this game still worth playing?  (Read 4043 times)

Legacy_Tchos

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Is this game still worth playing?
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2015, 09:14:40 am »


               


Tchos...isn't really good at paying attention to finer details of things, apparently. Just some friendly advice to not waste your breath on the subject.




 


Oh, are we posting what we think of each other now?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MayCaesar

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« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2015, 11:50:28 am »


               

Heeey, let's keep this topic cool guys.


 


 




Opposite for me. As bad as some of the problems in DnD/NWN are, I dislike many things in DA:O even more. And DA:O did not have the modding scene with custom content to remotely the degree that NWN did/does. Where, mind you, people completely overhaul a lot of the game on PWs and in some campaigns. Some of my favorite music is from NWN but I can really only name two songs offhand that I recall from DA:O (opening theme -- loved the first 30 seconds or whatever, didn't like the rest as much and Leliana's Song itself).




 


I struggle to think of any musical tracks in NWN1 I would really like. I liked NWN2 vanilla much more in this regard (the main theme, for example, is spectacular), and NWN2: MotB had some of the best tracks I've ever seen in a video game.


 


 




I don't think "good" is the right term here. "Acceptable" might be better. On a personal level I don't care much about graphics -- shiny stuff is nice but not at the expense of gameplay. I think styles like WoW and TF2 look just fine, even if they're hardly photorealistic. And in something like NWN I'm also considerably zoomed out from the action so the fact my character has blocks for hands matters a lot less.


And NWN2? I literally only played it for like 15-20 minutes before getting so disgusted with the camera/controls that I just never touched the game again. And this is coming from a person who had played a wide variety of N64 games (in multiple genres ranging from Perfect Dark to Starfox 64 to MarioKart 64 to Donkey Kong 64 and so on), many PC games (in multiple genres ranging from Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun/Red Alert 2 to Lords of Magic to Star Wars: Rogue Squadron to Oregon Trail 1/2/3/4 and so on), and never before been so disgusted with a game's controls that I just thought it wasn't worth playing.


And it certainly took some adjustment to get used to the controls in some of those games...but at least I felt like there was a light at the end of the tunnel if I figured out the controls.




 


Hmm, I've never understood what people disliked so much about NWN2 camera. Granted, I started playing when SoZ was already out and camera was overhauled. But now, really, three camera styles in NWN2 are very similar to those in NWN1. I can't stand "Drive mode" in either of the games, but "Exploration mode" works fine for me, and "Tactical mode" is very useful in NWN2, while in NWN1 it is kind of obsolete since you don't have to control your companions.


 


Still, camera in Dragon Age: Origins, WoW, KotoR and such always felt much more intuitive to me than that in NWN2 and NWN1. In DAO, I can hold right button to look around and hold left button at the same time to run forward, changing direction of movement with mouse motion. Unfortunately, in NWN1/2 such simple controls are unavailable.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2015, 03:06:25 pm »


               

Oh, are we posting what we think of each other now?


Nope, just trying to help some friends.

I struggle to think of any musical tracks in NWN1 I would really like. I liked NWN2 vanilla much more in this regard (the main theme, for example, is spectacular), and NWN2: MotB had some of the best tracks I've ever seen in a video game.


Off the top of my head (note that these sometimes aren't the technical song names but rather what I remember them from)?

- Menu main theme
- Aribeth's theme
- Gend's theme
- Forest theme
- Forest Boss theme (that 0:55 to 1:20 part!)
- Morag's theme (especially the 0:38 to 0:53 section where you have the almost "opposing" trumpets and french horns -- I love that bit way too much)
- HotU theme
- Lith My'athar theme (this and the Meph theme practically defined HotU)
- Vixthra's theme
- Illithid City theme
- Mephistopheles's theme

I can think of several more that I like quite a bit, just don't make it into the "stand-out" category, like Aribeth's Battle theme, City Battle theme, Valsharess theme, a *ton* of the atmospheric tracks, etc.

Could even listen to this as a whirlwind journey. Damn, now I'm going to go play through all three official campaigns again just for the music. You can't stop me.

Hmm, I've never understood what people disliked so much about NWN2 camera. Granted, I started playing when SoZ was already out and camera was overhauled. But now, really, three camera styles in NWN2 are very similar to those in NWN1. I can't stand "Drive mode" in either of the games, but "Exploration mode" works fine for me, and "Tactical mode" is very useful in NWN2, while in NWN1 it is kind of obsolete since you don't have to control your companions.


Possibly something they later changed (as you're indicating, a *lot* of people instantly loathed the camera/controls on release, not just me). Note sure exactly what you mean with your terms -- NWN has Driving Camera, Chase Camera, and Top Down Camera. "Drive mode" is presumably "Driving Camera" but not sure about the other two. I play in Top Down mode.

Note that I came to NWN having already played games like Legend of Zelda (which were third person over the shoulder), Command and Conquer (third person "battlefield" camera), and Perfect Dark (first person) -- so all I can say is that it definitely wasn't the camera being "different" than NWN in some way that made me loathe it so much. I'm fine with a variety of cameras, literally no other game has ever sparked that visceral disgust.

Still, camera in Dragon Age: Origins, WoW, KotoR and such always felt much more intuitive to me than that in NWN2 and NWN1. In DAO, I can hold right button to look around and hold left button at the same time to run forward, changing direction of movement with mouse motion. Unfortunately, in NWN1/2 such simple controls are unavailable.


Simple? In NWN you literally can just click where you want to move (which, incidentally, is also how I played DA:O and DA2) or use WASD. Can also rotate camera without having to actually click anything.

That said, in WoW I do play using mouse to move (plus A and D to strafe) because I need my left hand free for using abilities. But I'm not sure "simple" is really the right term here. If anything I'm more annoyed in NWN by the fact that your abilities are bound to F1 through F12 rather than 1 through =. Which means using an ability on Shift + F6, for example, really requires one hand to be pressing Shift and the other to be clicking that ability...which means you can't be holding down left and right mouse buttons to move at the same time. Which is also one reason why I wasn't playing DA:O in that manner (spells/abilities extended past the 0 key, had to click them).
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MayCaesar

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« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2015, 11:17:43 pm »


               


Nope, just trying to help some friends.



Off the top of my head (note that these sometimes aren't the technical song names but rather what I remember them from)?


- Menu main theme

- Aribeth's theme

- Gend's theme

- Forest theme

- Forest Boss theme (that 0:55 to 1:20 part!)

- Morag's theme (especially the 0:38 to 0:53 section where you have the almost "opposing" trumpets and french horns -- I love that bit way too much)

- HotU theme

- Lith My'athar theme (this and the Meph theme practically defined HotU)

- Vixthra's theme

- Illithid City theme

- Mephistopheles's theme


I can think of several more that I like quite a bit, just don't make it into the "stand-out" category, like Aribeth's Battle theme, City Battle theme, Valsharess theme, a *ton* of the atmospheric tracks, etc.


Could even listen to this as a whirlwind journey. Damn, now I'm going to go play through all three official campaigns again just for the music. You can't stop me.




 


How would I put it... I enjoy listening to the tracks you linked, but something is missing in them. Now, I am an amateur jazz/blue composer, so I may be looking at it a bit too "scientifically", but these songs don't sound "unique" to me. Take Gend's Theme, for example: it is a pleasant sounding song with the Renaissance European style, but I can't quite pick anything unique about it that would separate it from other songs of similar style.


 


In comparison, here is the fade combat theme from DAO:


https://www.youtube....h?v=8EIxp9jXHco


The rhythm, the drum sequence, the tone transition at 0:19, many elements from various styles (Afro music, christian music, horror music, Arabic music and so on) - this song immediately settled in my mental music database. And I found much more songs like this in DAO than in most other games, including NWN games. In fact, I would go as far as to say that DAO soundtrack is my favorite overall among all fantasy games (I really-really liked some songs from NWN2: MotB and Witcher 1/2, but not all of them caught my attention).


 


Although, like I said, I really liked some NWN2 tracks, such as these:


https://www.youtube....h?v=ysqQcsS2gGE


https://www.youtube....h?v=qvq2My4pfIc


https://www.youtube....h?v=4V1ZB1rWsS4


https://www.youtube....h?v=3cINoBFdZ3M


 


Note though that I am biased towards modern music which is essentially a mix of multiple different styles, and I get quickly bored with any music of purely particular style, so this might affect my perception.


 


 




Simple? In NWN you literally can just click where you want to move (which, incidentally, is also how I played DA:O and DA2) or use WASD. Can also rotate camera without having to actually click anything.


That said, in WoW I do play using mouse to move (plus A and D to strafe) because I need my left hand free for using abilities. But I'm not sure "simple" is really the right term here. If anything I'm more annoyed in NWN by the fact that your abilities are bound to F1 through F12 rather than 1 through =. Which means using an ability on Shift + F6, for example, really requires one hand to be pressing Shift and the other to be clicking that ability...which means you can't be holding down left and right mouse buttons to move at the same time. Which is also one reason why I wasn't playing DA:O in that manner (spells/abilities extended past the 0 key, had to click them).




 


To click on the ground, you need to incline your camera down to see the floor, and this is my main issue with mouse-clicking movement in 3D games. I see you said that you use Top Down camera most of the time, but I cannot do so in a 3D game such as NWN2 or DAO, I want to enjoy the scenery as I would if I were the character (I don't mind using Top Down camera in combat though). Driving Camera (if I correctly remember what it does) in NWN has the problem of delayed response: if you are standing in place and want to turn right, your character won't do so immediately, and it will take time for it to rotate - this makes this mode almost unusable for me. And Chase Camera is counter-intuitive to me, since I prefer sharing the sight with my character for the sake of immersion, rather than watching it moving from the side, as if I was watching a movie.


 


Controls such as in WoW, DAO, KotoR and so on are my favorite. Then, again, my first RPG with 3rd person view was KotoR (accurately saying, it was my second game, but the first one was too obscure and different to take it into account), so that might have influenced my taste.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_allen179gmail

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« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2015, 11:32:46 pm »


               

How about 'Pool of Radiance'? 2d and keyboard play.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_allen179gmail

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« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2015, 11:36:51 pm »


               

May be the 'quote' button will work this time. How about 'Pool of Radiance'? 2d and keyboard play.


 


I wanted to quote Lilura Pong post



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2015, 09:03:06 pm »


               

How would I put it... I enjoy listening to the tracks you linked, but something is missing in them. Now, I am an amateur jazz/blue composer, so I may be looking at it a bit too "scientifically", but these songs don't sound "unique" to me. Take Gend's Theme, for example: it is a pleasant sounding song with the Renaissance European style, but I can't quite pick anything unique about it that would separate it from other songs of similar style.


For the record, I didn't say it (or any of the songs, Gend's is mainly on there as I found it very recognizable) was incredibly unique -- just that I really liked them and sprung to mind. Are there other songs that sound fairly similar? Sure, but I can still easily recognize those NWN songs as being from NWN and enjoy listening to them overall. I remember them even years later. I remember music from a lot of games too, for the record, not just NWN (ME2 has some of my favorite music).
 

In comparison, here is the fade combat theme from DAO:
https://www.youtube....h?v=8EIxp9jXHco
The rhythm, the drum sequence, the tone transition at 0:19, many elements from various styles (Afro music, christian music, horror music, Arabic music and so on) - this song immediately settled in my mental music database.


I don't know what to say here. I don't really care about that Fade combat theme. It's not *bad* I guess but I don't find it memorable/interesting. On the flip side, the first 50ish seconds of the main theme made me think "This is going to be awesome." The rest of the song is fine, I guess, but it's a massive shift in tone from the French Horn (I think?) and vocals of the first third of the song and I don't like it nearly as much. So perhaps you are looking at it "too scientifically" in the sense that you're more interested/impressed by complexity/blending while I'm interested in something I think sounds cool (which, mind you, can range from peaceful atmospheric melodies to reckless battle tempos within video games and pretty much any genre but rap/country overall -- though in all fairness there have been a select few rap/country songs I liked).
 

Note though that I am biased towards modern music which is essentially a mix of multiple different styles, and I get quickly bored with any music of purely particular style, so this might affect my perception.


I think it's affecting your perception to a massive degree. Again, the NWN2 tracks aren't *bad* but none of them made me think "This is awesome." Out of curiosity, what do you make out of this song and this other song from ME2?
 

To click on the ground, you need to incline your camera down to see the floor, and this is my main issue with mouse-clicking movement in 3D games. I see you said that you use Top Down camera most of the time, but I cannot do so in a 3D game such as NWN2 or DAO, I want to enjoy the scenery as I would if I were the character (I don't mind using Top Down camera in combat though).


In NWN, I use Top Down *all* of the time. In DA:O/DA2 I had the camera in a position extremely similar to NWN's "Top Down" as well. Even WoW is the same way -- scrolled out and overhead at an angle. I'd also point out that while NWN might not be as 3Dish as NWN2 or DAO, it's still 3D in the sense that there's a Z axis and you can look at an object from any angle -- it's not a game where the developer can just move pixels up on the Y axis and give them "priority" over the background so it "looks" 3D (and the player can't rotate the camera to discover the deception).

Controls such as in WoW, DAO, KotoR and so on are my favorite. Then, again, my first RPG with 3rd person view was KotoR (accurately saying, it was my second game, but the first one was too obscure and different to take it into account), so that might have influenced my taste.


Which is very weird to hear for me since (I've never played KOTOR) I have the same general camera style in WoW/DAO as NWN. And I used the same controls in DAO and NWN (hell, I even clicked to move every now and then in WoW too).
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MayCaesar

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« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2015, 10:58:40 am »


               


For the record, I didn't say it (or any of the songs, Gend's is mainly on there as I found it very recognizable) was incredibly unique -- just that I really liked them and sprung to mind. Are there other songs that sound fairly similar? Sure, but I can still easily recognize those NWN songs as being from NWN and enjoy listening to them overall. I remember them even years later. I remember music from a lot of games too, for the record, not just NWN (ME2 has some of my favorite music).




 


Don't get me wrong, I have a good musical memory, and I will immediately recognize any song from NWN, should I hear it. However, among thousands of songs I have in my memory, very few NWN songs take a more significant place than just "heard, moved on". Again, I am not saying that NWN music is bad, it is just that it is not to my taste.


 


 




I don't know what to say here. I don't really care about that Fade combat theme. It's not *bad* I guess but I don't find it memorable/interesting. On the flip side, the first 50ish seconds of the main theme made me think "This is going to be awesome." The rest of the song is fine, I guess, but it's a massive shift in tone from the French Horn (I think?) and vocals of the first third of the song and I don't like it nearly as much. So perhaps you are looking at it "too scientifically" in the sense that you're more interested/impressed by complexity/blending while I'm interested in something I think sounds cool (which, mind you, can range from peaceful atmospheric melodies to reckless battle tempos within video games and pretty much any genre but rap/country overall -- though in all fairness there have been a select few rap/country songs I liked).




 


The problem in my case is that music has been a major part of my life since I was a kid. I've heard so many different songs from various styles that only something with some unique elements can catch my attention these days. As such, I now look at the interjections of various styles and national music cultures. In NWN, the music mostly has the traditional European style, with some minor elements from other styles, and there is little in this style that I haven't already heard countless times (especially given that first 6 years of my "musical career" I was forced to play in exactly traditional European style, as my instructor wasn't interested in anything else, and by the end of this period I climbed the walls trying to escape from it). In Dragon Age: Origins, it is much more varied in terms of styles, and I don't think there is a single song that doesn't embody many styles simultaneously in it. In terms of "pure quality", I'd say NWN and DAO music is similar, but in terms of my subjective taste I definitely prefer DAO, by far.


 


 




I think it's affecting your perception to a massive degree. Again, the NWN2 tracks aren't *bad* but none of them made me think "This is awesome." Out of curiosity, what do you make out of this song and this other song from ME2?




 


Hmm, in Mass Effect series, I think, music incredibly well fits the atmosphere and even creates it sometimes - I actually think this is one of the best series in terms of atmospheric music. It, again, is a little bit more uniform in terms of styles than in DAO though, so, as a standalone music, it is of not much interest to me. It is mostly electronic music of the kind that was mostly played in 80-s-90-s. Tali soundtrack really enhanced the atmosphere, but I wouldn't say I particularly liked it in itself. The Suicide Mission score, of course, is a different story, it is truly incredible in all regards. I liked Mass Effect 3 ending music even more.


 


By the way, I don't like MMOs, but World of Warcraft has some of my favorite music tracks, not just in games, but overall. 


https://www.youtube....h?v=VhhvWeXHjP0


https://www.youtube....h?v=No6jHwe0QoQ


They used the real orchestras to perform this music, which is something very few video game composers do nowadays, preferring to compose the music in parts, electronically. Which is a shame: there is something about real concert hall acoustics that no electronic instrument can simulate. Another MMO with stunning orchestra music is Guild Wars 2.


https://www.youtube....h?v=nT4lnDuI4Mc


 


 




In NWN, I use Top Down *all* of the time. In DA:O/DA2 I had the camera in a position extremely similar to NWN's "Top Down" as well. Even WoW is the same way -- scrolled out and overhead at an angle. I'd also point out that while NWN might not be as 3Dish as NWN2 or DAO, it's still 3D in the sense that there's a Z axis and you can look at an object from any angle -- it's not a game where the developer can just move pixels up on the Y axis and give them "priority" over the background so it "looks" 3D (and the player can't rotate the camera to discover the deception).



Which is very weird to hear for me since (I've never played KOTOR) I have the same general camera style in WoW/DAO as NWN. And I used the same controls in DAO and NWN (hell, I even clicked to move every now and then in WoW too).




 


This might be one of the primary reasons why I dislike NWN graphics so much: it is 3D, and yet, it is not. In 3D games, I like enjoying the scenery, so, unless I am in combat, I always use a 3rd person view "from the back" - and in NWN it doesn't work well.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_BelgarathMTH

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« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2015, 10:40:53 pm »


               

My answer to the OP is an emphatic yes.


 


I was going to join the discussion about music and post some links, but there seems to be no way to do it. The link button is not only non-responsive, but it crashes the website such that I have to shut down my browser to get out of it. It does not accept the "ok" button after I paste my link, and the "cancel" and "x" buttons do not work. That's a bit discouraging that I can't link anything if I want to participate in discussions here.


 


How did you link your musical links, MagicalMaster?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Grani

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« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2015, 10:58:50 pm »


               

 


This might be one of the primary reasons why I dislike NWN graphics so much: it is 3D, and yet, it is not. In 3D games, I like enjoying the scenery, so, unless I am in combat, I always use a 3rd person view "from the back" - and in NWN it doesn't work well.



 


Not that there's anything wrong with personal opinions... but I don't get how this could be such a significant flaw.


 


Actually, it is 3D in every sense of this word but one. This one being that you cannot have a spot that's walkable at different heights. It is 3D for all other purposes. Rotating camera? Check. Objects of different heights? Check.


 


I mean, mostly when people discuss pros and cons of 2D and 3D games, it's all about visuals, which are fully 3D in NWN.


 


Also, you said you use a 3rd person view "from the back" which doesn't work well in NWN. I strongly disagree - I love the third person perspective as well and haven't had any significant issues. 3rd person camera and WSAD controls fall a bit short only during combat, but for these situations you need a mouse anyway, so why not move with it while you're at it. Plus you said you don't use this view in combat anyway. What's so bad about 3rd person view?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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« Reply #70 on: September 20, 2015, 10:32:52 am »


               


Not that there's anything wrong with personal opinions... but I don't get how this could be such a significant flaw.


 


Actually, it is 3D in every sense of this word but one. This one being that you cannot have a spot that's walkable at different heights. It is 3D for all other purposes. Rotating camera? Check. Objects of different heights? Check.


 


I mean, mostly when people discuss pros and cons of 2D and 3D games, it's all about visuals, which are fully 3D in NWN.


 


Also, you said you use a 3rd person view "from the back" which doesn't work well in NWN. I strongly disagree - I love the third person perspective as well and haven't had any significant issues. 3rd person camera and WSAD controls fall a bit short only during combat, but for these situations you need a mouse anyway, so why not move with it while you're at it. Plus you said you don't use this view in combat anyway. What's so bad about 3rd person view?




3rd person view really sucks in NWN, and the moment you use mouse to rotate camera the mode get messed up afaik, + since you have to use mouse the 3rd person mode or "driving camera" doesn't really offer enough view to be able to click on enemy you want.


 


There is a camera hack that allows to play 1st person view and that is quite interesting but has same drawback even bigger. That wouldnt be that big problem tho if it was able to controll the game better via kayeboard just like any mmorpg.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_icywind1980

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« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2015, 11:14:15 am »


               

You guys are really just nitpicking the visuals and limitations of a 13 year old game at this point. A game which, I should remind you all, has given us countless hours of entertainment, not to mention a vivid and intelligent community. So the only answer at this point, to echo Belgarath, is a million times yes. There is nothing about this game that could diminish the amount of worthwhileness of playing it.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Grani

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« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2015, 01:42:13 pm »


               


3rd person view really sucks in NWN, and the moment you use mouse to rotate camera the mode get messed up afaik, + since you have to use mouse the 3rd person mode or "driving camera" doesn't really offer enough view to be able to click on enemy you want.


 


There is a camera hack that allows to play 1st person view and that is quite interesting but has same drawback even bigger. That wouldnt be that big problem tho if it was able to controll the game better via kayeboard just like any mmorpg.




 


It's a matter of subjective opinions at worst. I can't imagine playing NWN in a different way that with a 3rd person camera setting.


You say it doesn't offer enough view to be able to click on an enemy I want, but I don't have such troubles - I simply zoom out and can pretty much click whatever I want.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MayCaesar

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« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2015, 02:18:18 pm »


               


Not that there's anything wrong with personal opinions... but I don't get how this could be such a significant flaw.


 


Actually, it is 3D in every sense of this word but one. This one being that you cannot have a spot that's walkable at different heights. It is 3D for all other purposes. Rotating camera? Check. Objects of different heights? Check.


 


I mean, mostly when people discuss pros and cons of 2D and 3D games, it's all about visuals, which are fully 3D in NWN.


 


Also, you said you use a 3rd person view "from the back" which doesn't work well in NWN. I strongly disagree - I love the third person perspective as well and haven't had any significant issues. 3rd person camera and WSAD controls fall a bit short only during combat, but for these situations you need a mouse anyway, so why not move with it while you're at it. Plus you said you don't use this view in combat anyway. What's so bad about 3rd person view?




 


The thing is, the way NWN zones are built and played doesn't let me think of it as true 3D. In comparison, Doom was pseudo-3D too (3D representation of a 2D map), but the gameplay was built in such a way that you constantly moved in all 3 directions most of the time, plus you could fall in pure 3D. I didn't have any problems with thinking of Doom as 3D game. However, in NWN all zones are built of 2D tiles with 3D models built on top of them. Different tiles can have different heights, but each tile is large enough for it to not feel natural - to me, at least. I see NWN as a 2D game with 3D representation, and it really conflicts with what I see with my eyes. I can see an amazing scenery, but, since it is blocky due to being made of tiles, my suspension of disbelief is not enough.


 


One of the biggest reasons I like NWN2 so much better than NWN1 is that outdoor areas there are not made of tiles. Again, they are not pure 3D, but, since the height can be constantly changing in all points of the map, it feels more like true 3D. Indoor areas are still made of tiles there, but indoor areas are pretty much supposed to be 2D most of the time, so it is not an issue.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Grani

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Is this game still worth playing?
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2015, 05:22:24 pm »


               


The thing is, the way NWN zones are built and played doesn't let me think of it as true 3D. In comparison, Doom was pseudo-3D too (3D representation of a 2D map), but the gameplay was built in such a way that you constantly moved in all 3 directions most of the time, plus you could fall in pure 3D. I didn't have any problems with thinking of Doom as 3D game. However, in NWN all zones are built of 2D tiles with 3D models built on top of them. Different tiles can have different heights, but each tile is large enough for it to not feel natural - to me, at least. I see NWN as a 2D game with 3D representation, and it really conflicts with what I see with my eyes. I can see an amazing scenery, but, since it is blocky due to being made of tiles, my suspension of disbelief is not enough.


 


One of the biggest reasons I like NWN2 so much better than NWN1 is that outdoor areas there are not made of tiles. Again, they are not pure 3D, but, since the height can be constantly changing in all points of the map, it feels more like true 3D. Indoor areas are still made of tiles there, but indoor areas are pretty much supposed to be 2D most of the time, so it is not an issue.




 


To each their own. '<img'> Still, I'm intrigued. You said that you love 3rd person perspective and that gameplay in NWN is not as good as it should be with this setting, yet NWN2 does not have any sort of 3rd person camera (one of the reasons I dislike it) and you seem to have no problems with it. I mean, surely a bad implementation of an (optional) feature can't be worse than the lack of this feature altogether, can it?


 


As for the outdoor areas... there are pros and cons. NWN2's might look better, but they are a hell to build. TIme-consuming and outright frustrating at moments. NWN1's are easy and fast to create.