Author Topic: NWN 1 & 2 are still selling like hotcakes over at GOG.com...so where are all the players?  (Read 5111 times)

Legacy_MayCaesar

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I'm a little different from you, MayCaesar, but I'm still an example of the modern gamer who discovered the older ones late and yet went back to them.  Up until mid-2009, I held graphics in high importance, and would not play older 3D games with low polygon counts and poor texturing.  But after getting tired of playing Oblivion and Fallout 3, a friend finally managed to convince me to try Morrowind.  I had been highly resistant to it because it was so ugly, but after playing it a little, I saw the merits in its greater complexity and deeper gameplay over its successor, and this opened me up to playing more older games.


 


Then I played Dragon Age: Origins, which was the door that led to the earlier games that inspired it, such as Baldur's Gate and the NWN games.  The difference with me is that I find the more artistic, more colourful, and less repetitive 2D graphics of Baldur's Gate to be superior to its early 3D successors.  Modern 3D games likely have an edge over them now, but it depends on how willing they are to have assets that are unique to particular areas, rather than common assets that are reused everywhere.




 


I don't think we are that different at all, we just have different tastes. I totally agree with you that some 2D or old 3D games look better than some modern games: they may look outdated and have poor graphics technologically, but it is not just graphics that matters, it is also visual style, it is the gameplay, many other things. In Baldur's Gate, everything to me seemed poor, I just didn't find it either beautiful or interesting to play. But, say, Evil Islands, a game released in 1999 if I am correct, I find to be incredible: graphics has a certain "vibe" to it, the gameplay is unusual and fun, the story is great... Hell, I must stay that to this day Doom 2: Hell on Earth remains my favorite RTS game of all time, and, with high resolution mods, it looks more pleasant to my eyes than all those modern battlefields and calls of duty.


 


I do not mind playing old games now. I played Neverwinter Nights 1 the first time in 2013, and Neverwinter Nights 2 - in 2014. I played through entire Starcraft 1 campaign the first time in 2011, if I am correct. One of the games I am planning to play in the nearest future is Warcraft 1: I played Warcraft 2 a lot, but I've never got to play the first game, and horrendous graphics by modern standards doesn't stop me at all.


 


However, with some games, it is very hard to get into them now if you didn't play them upon release. I know HoMM 2 was a big hit at the time - but, since my familiarity with the series started with HoMM 3, any attempts to play HoMM 2 have always failed, and I always went back to HoMM 3 after a short time. Could I play, say, Dune 2 these days and enjoy it, had I not played it back in 1992, when it looks like this?



I don't know if I could, and I definitely do not expect other people to be able to either.


 


 




I tried to use nwn 2 to get my girlfriend into rpgs (her rig is old, this was the most it could handle) It didn't go well. She lost interest after a few evenings, because she felt the pacing was too slow and the controls too cumbersome. She also tried to brute force most battles (with a druid of all things) because reading up on tons of spells and setting up her spell book before each dungeon was not something she enjoyed.


Things that are second nature to use may be too convoluted for newcomers to get into. And there are more streamlined alternatives available nowadays. I can see why most developers these days try to avoid any comparisons with 'spread sheet simulator: The game'




 


Well put. And while I do not really like this modern approach of simplification and streamlining, I understand why it is taking place, and I understand how hard it might be for people used to this to play older games. 


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tchos

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Could I play, say, Dune 2 these days and enjoy it, had I not played it back in 1992, when it looks like this?


I don't know if I could, and I definitely do not expect other people to be able to either.




 


You might be surprised.  Retrogaming has been growing in popularity, and many brand new games have been coming out that use a low-resolution pixel-based style very much like this.  I've acquired quite a taste for it, myself.


 


Some examples, released in the past few years:


Freedom Planet


Terraria


Stealth Bastard


Retro City Rampage


To the Moon


Pier Solar and the Great Architects


 


Tons more on Steam...


               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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@MayCaesar - Thanks for the video.  My son (13) and I were watching that and sort of comparing impressions.  I was seeing the limitations and he was seeing the possibilities.  He mentioned that what they showed in the video might even be more than he would need to make an adventure, but that's the difference between a kid and an adult, IMO, DM-wise.  I'm still really leery of the company developing the game, but sometimes I wonder if a simpler building style (such as displayed in the video or in game makers like RPG Maker VX Ace) entices even more casual story creators.  Neverwinter is complex-enough of a simulator to have been used not just by universites but by NATO and the US Military for training.  It's hard to imagine SCL ever being that flexible but for a D&D simulator (if you can call it that), maybe that's not as important.  Time will tell.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MayCaesar

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@OldTimeRadio - I think both you and your son are right from certain perspectives. '<img'> I see the main advantage of SCL editor to be its simplicity: one can just load it up and start building a story, without learning anything extra. Of course, it is not nearly as powerful as Neverwinter Nights toolsets, but it should be more than enough for those who just want to visualize a story, without tinkering with complex scripts, without trying to make a perfect gameplay. I agree that it is unlikely to be used in university classes, but it might serve both as an entry point for would-be game creators who don't know where to start and are scared to even look at large complicated toolsets, and as a simple builder for those who don't want to spend years building and perfecting a module.


 


Besides, I believe, if it is going to be as customizable as the developers say, then people will likely create a lot of extensions for it, filling the blanks left by developers. If it really becomes popular, it is possible that in a year we will have an editor matching Aurora and Electron in terms of functionality. Although it remains to be seen.


 


One of the main problems of Neverwinter Nights as I see it is that the community is small nowadays and keeps shrinking. A module someone releases will be played, at best, by a few hundred people, probably less, depending on how you advertise it. But if SCL will have a permanent player base consisting of hundred thousand people (quite possible, given their aggressive advertisement campaign and shortage of similar games), then every released standalone module will be played by thousands. For me personally, it would be a good reason to start working on my next module in SCL instead of NWN, even if some module functionality will have to be sacrificed. 


 


 




You might be surprised.  Retrogaming has been growing in popularity, and many brand new games have been coming out that use a low-resolution pixel-based style very much like this.  I've acquired quite a taste for it, myself.


 


Some examples, released in the past few years:


Freedom Planet


Terraria


Stealth Bastard


Retro City Rampage


To the Moon


Pier Solar and the Great Architects


 


Tons more on Steam...




 

There might be many games like this, but the player base is a question. I know that Baldur's Gate 1/2: EE were quite big hits, and Age of Empires 2: HD was also quite popular. However, I believe naturally that most people interested in these games are just old school players desiring to relive the old good days. You don't see too many fresh people going into those games. Maybe I am wrong, but that's the impression I am getting. For people who grew up playing full HD games with 1024x1024 textured, it might be hard to get into a 640x480 game with sprites. I know I could never get into Baldur's Gate series, and I'd played such ancient games as Lemmings and Dune 2...


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tchos

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However, I believe naturally that most people interested in these games are just old school players desiring to relive the old good days.



 

Forget it. 



               
               

               
            

Legacy_JediMindTrix

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You don't see too many fresh people going into those games. Maybe I am wrong




You are. Go look in the EE forums. It's 75% fresh faces and 25% old-timer modders and players. You'll see numerous discussions of strategies and tactics spring up all the time- as a long timer myself, I see them and go 'didn't I already have this discussion ten years ago?'