Author Topic: A newbie here  (Read 1561 times)

Legacy_whativa

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« on: March 08, 2015, 10:38:38 am »


               

Helo! ok guys I need help..

1)There is only one character playing at a time? or u get plenty like in BG?

2)Is this game's combat only real time? or u can pause it like in BG? how exactle does the combat funtion?

3)Can someone explain me whats going on with the Expansions and Premium Modules? whats the difference? How can i experience the game with all expansions/premium modules included?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Grani

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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 03:23:52 pm »


               

Hello and welcome to the community!


1) You can directly control only a single character, though you can have NPC companions in some modules that you can indirectly control via various commands. Modules are most-often self-contained adventures that can be created by module builders and then played by... well, players. A special type of a module is a "premium module", which is released by BioWare, not fans. More about premium modules below. Also, some modules are not necessarily "adventures", but rather whole game worlds to be explored by players.


2) You can pause the game with spacebar whenever you wish. This feature might be disabled in multiplayer, but doesn't have to - it depends on the preferences of the host. Combat in NWN is pseudo real time, which means it is generally divided into rounds (1 round is about 6 seconds), but it pretty much looks real-time.


3) Expansions are additional official campaigns added to the base game, along with new player classes, spells, feats and skills, as well as some new content that can be used by module builders. Modules created with expansions installed require these expansions to be played. If you bought the game recently, you'll more than likely have the Diamond Edition, which includes both expansions already.


Premium modules, on the other hand, are single modules (mostly single-player, but some of them are multiplayer-compatible) that don't add any new content to the game, apart from the module itself. They're definitely shorter than the official campaigns (that is, adventures included in the base game and the expansions).

Again, if you own the Diamond Edition, you should have an installer for the three out of six premium modules ("Kingmaker", "Witch's Wake", "ShadowGuard"). You can still play the other three by downloading them, since they are available for free. Their names are "Pirates of the Sword Coast", "Infinite Dungeons" and "Wyvern Crown of Cormyr".

Keep in mind that there are many other great modules out there. If you liked Baldur's Gate, I personally recommend "Darkness over Daggerford" (which was supposed to be a premium module).


 


Keep in mind that I didn't go into details, since they could easily confuse a newcomer. Instead, I'd suggest you search the game wiki if you want to learn more about some stuff: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page


 


Finally, I'd personally advise you to download and install (in this order):

 


-1.69 critical rebuild (to be found here):


http://www.neverwint...nfo/players.htm


 


-NWN Client Extender:


http://www.neverwint....info/nwncx.htm


 


-Unofficial patch 1.71:
http://www.neverwint...s.info/p170.htm



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 06:49:51 pm »


               


Helo! ok guys I need help..




 


Welcome!


 




1)There is only one character playing at a time? or u get plenty like in BG?




 


You as the player only control your main character.  You can, however, often find NPC companions to join the party and/or group up with other players.


 




2)Is this game's combat only real time? or u can pause it like in BG? how exactle does the combat funtion?




 


You can pause the game in single player (or in multiplayer if it's still enabled).  The combat is basically real time though you'll get things like saying "You can attack twice per round" rather than "You can attack once every three seconds" -- as a round is 6 seconds.


 




3)Can someone explain me whats going on with the Expansions and Premium Modules? whats the difference? How can i experience the game with all expansions/premium modules included?




 


The original NWN had its content and featured an...okay...single player campaign that lasted 30-40 hours.


Shadows of Undrentide added a bunch of new classes/feats/monsters/etc and a good new single player campaign that lasts 10-15 hours.


Hordes of the Underdark introduced epic levels (up to 40 rather than 20), new classes/feats/monsters/etc, and an excellent new single player campaign that lasts 15-20 hours.


 


Modules in NWN are the basis of everything.  Anything you play is a module -- this includes every single chapter of the campaigns (each chapter is a separate module).  Premium modules were stand-alone stories (usually much shorter).


 


However, the main appeal of NWN is its *custom* content.  Dedicated authors have created campaign modules that are superior to any of the official campaigns and premium modules and even many AAA games (that said, as you might expect most custom modules are worse than the official content -- entirely depends on the author).


 



-1.69 critical rebuild (to be found here):

http://www.neverwint...nfo/players.htm


 


-NWN Client Extender:


http://www.neverwint....info/nwncx.htm


 


-Unofficial patch 1.71:
http://www.neverwint...s.info/p170.htm




 


I would strongly agree with the critical rebuild for sure.  Get it.


 


Client Extender is excellent but slightly trickier to install -- don't need to get it right away.


 


I would not suggest you install that "Community" patch -- it's one person's vision, not anything official.  In all fairness, it does fix a lot of minor bugs (except 99% of people aren't even going to notice a difference) but it also changes the balance of several things based on the whim of the author.  The key thing there is that some authors change the balance of stuff for their particular modules (which don't affect other modules)...but this patch tries to change it for all single player modules.  Some people use it, most don't.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tchos

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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 07:25:23 pm »


               


1)There is only one character playing at a time? or u get plenty like in BG?




 


Just an aside, but if you want companions you can control like in BG, you should play NWN2.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Grani

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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 08:54:27 pm »


               

I would not suggest you install that "Community" patch -- it's one person's vision, not anything official.  In all fairness, it does fix a lot of minor bugs (except 99% of people aren't even going to notice a difference) but it also changes the balance of several things based on the whim of the author.  The key thing there is that some authors change the balance of stuff for their particular modules (which don't affect other modules)...but this patch tries to change it for all single player modules.  Some people use it, most don't.


 


I'd think of stuff like a visual glitch or something else that doesn't affect gameplay if I were to think of a "minor bug", whereas CPP fixes some, I think, big ones. For example, some feats (like Trident Weapon Focus or Circle Kick) are useless without CPP and not really fixable by a module builder. It's far from "minor bugs", to my mind.


Besides, the patch does not influence balance much, and even if it did, balance is not a priority in single-player modules, whereas if the player wants to play on PWs, the balance is not influenced by CPP.


 


I think it'd be useful for a new player not only because such a player is not aware of what feats/spells/skills might be bugged, potentially breaking his build, but also because the original descriptions for these are often misleading, and sometimes outright false. With 1.71 patch you can be much more certain that in-game descriptions will tell you the truth.


Just my three cents on the matter. '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_WhiZard

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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 09:19:27 pm »


               

I think it'd be useful for a new player not only because such a player is not aware of what feats/spells/skills might be bugged, potentially breaking his build, but also because the original descriptions for these are often misleading, and sometimes outright false. With 1.71 patch you can be much more certain that in-game descriptions will tell you the truth.

Just my three cents on the matter. '<img'>




 


The thing is you have no certainty of this from one module to the next.  One module might have a spell override script, another might override a 2da file, another might make small adjustments to scripts.  If you have 1.69 then the only changes you would notice are the ones the module builder put in, but if you were using the CPP there is no assurance for what fixes you might lose.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2015, 09:33:17 pm »


               

Welcome!


 


You are in pretty good hands in this thread.


 


But I want to add, that while you should probably wait on installing the CPP until you understand the game more, the reasons given for not installing it are inaccurate to put it nicely. Once you learn more about NWN you should check the CPP out, and make up your own mind.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2015, 09:42:18 pm »


               

So, first of all, let me start by saying that I took a quick glance at the current version of Shadow's patch which seems to be 1.71.  I still need to double check this and go through things more thoroughly, but it does appear he actually fixed at least some (possibly all) of the major problems that originally existed.  This included things like wizards not being able to use scrolls the module author expected and changing the implementation of Empower Spell to be incorrect.


 


Given that, the downsides of using his patch appear much smaller.  That said, it still generally seems the benefits are pretty minor as well.


 


Caveat to the above: my understanding that a builder with the CPP could do a lot more, but we're talking strictly about a player using it right now.


 




the reasons given for not installing it are inaccurate to put it nicely.




 


Well, let's see...


 




I'd think of stuff like a visual glitch or something else that doesn't affect gameplay if I were to think of a "minor bug", whereas CPP fixes some, I think, big ones.




 


There's a *ton* of stuff like this:



- Slay live (sic): added missing impact damage visual effect


- Inflict Wounds: visual effect changed to less intrusive one

plus spell school or innate spell level changes that the vast, vast majority of people will never notice, let alone even care about.


 




For example, some feats (like Trident Weapon Focus or Circle Kick) are useless without CPP and not really fixable by a module builder.




 


Here's a question: how many people even care about Trident Weapon Focus working?  It's a martial weapon that's flat out worse than a spear (a simple weapon) in every way?  I think it literally may be the most useless weapon in the entire game.  Pretty much everything else has at least SOME reason to use it...but not the trident.


 


Most modules and many PWs don't even have tridents, either due to them not existing prior to 1.67 or because they're so worthless.


 


Circle Kick just fell into the category of "useless, don't take" along with other feats like Dirty Fighting and Improved Parry (which isn't even counting all the feats that technically work correctly but are still so terrible no one ever takes them).  It's been that way for 13 years or whatever and people have adjusted to the fact that many feats just are...really bad.  Fixing it is nice, I guess, but it only affects monks...and then only monks fighting unarmed (rather than with a kama)...and the bonus winds up being pretty minor eventually anyway.


 


I don't disagree that something like Shadow's patch is needed to fix those.  I just question the actual value of the fixes.


 



I think it'd be useful for a new player not only because such a player is not aware of what feats/spells/skills might be bugged, potentially breaking his build, but also because the original descriptions for these are often misleading, and sometimes outright false. With 1.71 patch you can be much more certain that in-game descriptions will tell you the truth.

Just my three cents on the matter. '<img'>




 


And like Whizard said, in many modules this doesn't even hold true.


 


If a module uses custom AI?  Write off many of Shadow's fixes there.


 


If a module uses a custom spell system (like Aielund and the EMS)?  Write off Shadow's fixes there.


 


Or how about some basic stuff?  Let's say I think Firestorm should hit all targets, not just enemies, and thus I alter the script as a builder (and I'm not using Shadow's patch).  You play my module and you have Shadow's patch.  Suddenly Firestorm is doing up to 40d6 damage again because I didn't fix that bug in my modification but my modification takes precedence.


 


Speaking of Firestorm, an amusing story.  When I was balancing my module Siege of the Heavens, I assumed that caster focused Clerics and Druids would be using Firestorm as one of their main nukes since it did 40d6 damage.  Using Shadow's 20d6 Firestorm makes those much weaker.  That said, Clerics can still buff up and reasonably melee while Druids can still shapeshift (which was improved) so it isn't the end of the world...but it wasn't my goal.


 


To be clear, Firestorm doing 40d6 was completely and utterly a bug.  But it still means that if I want caster Clerics/Druids to be as viable as I intended, I either need to buff their spells in general or "fix" Shadow's fix.  And a player trying to be a caster Cleric/Druid using the CPP would be not having nearly as much fun as I intended and will probably feel rather weak.


 


Other examples of these problems exist, like how Arqon had to fix EMS when Savant told him how making it so AoEs didn't destroy placeables wound up breaking parts of Savant's Aielund Saga.  Arqon wound up making it so Lightning Bolt *only* would affect those.


 


The general point is that a module not written with Shadow's patch in mind (which includes modules written before his patch even existed) might run into problems in unexpected ways because the author was relying on certain behavior/bugs/etc that Shadow changed/fixed.


 


So, yes, historically I've been very wary of Shadow's patch.  Like I said, it does seem he fixed some/all of the major problems...but other stuff does remain (like the whole previous section).  I'd probably even be willing to say that if the author used Shadow's patch and the player is using Shadow's patch that there's essentially only benefits (potentially some major ones if the builder took advantage of a the stuff in Shadow's patch)...but, well, that simply isn't the case most of the time.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Lilura

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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 11:45:39 pm »


               

Pretty much everything else has at least SOME reason to use it...but not the trident.


 


Well, there's always the cool factor or style points - especially for evil characters. The Swordflight companion, Harax the Half-Fiend, wields the Trident of the Hells...


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Proleric

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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 09:39:35 am »


               

Turning back to the OP, I'd reassure newcomers that a very enjoyable time is to be had, simply by applying the 1.69 Critical Rebuild, then downloading some of the great modules (fan-written campaigns) from the vault, or visiting some of the persistent worlds.


 


From this thread, you can see that since D&D is a game of almost unlimited complexity, there are passionate opinions on every fine detail, but, really, none of that matters a jot when you're getting started.


 


Once you've played a few modules, you might start looking around for enhancements. There's a sticky in this forum, which, to be fair, is both dauntingly comprehensive, and yet necessarily incomplete and far from consensus. Confusing?


 


Well, the pleasant truth is that there is such a wealth of excellent material that you really have to try a few things out, pick what suits you, and set the rest aside for a while.


 


Unfortunately, compatibility has never been our strong point, so my advice, from my limited perspective as a module builder, is to focus on enhancements that improve the game visually without changing the rules. Those that change scripts, such as Tony K's AI, can cause fatal bugs in modules.


 


Some modules and persistent worlds require specific enhancements in order to play, so, even if you decide not to hunt around for improvements, you'll acquire a nice collection over time.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Grani

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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 11:22:28 am »


               

MagicalMaster, I made effort to include a mention about this stuff (like trident weapon focus) being difficult to fix for a module builder because even if something is worthless or close to worthless, like original tridents, a module builder, such as myself, can easily change the weapon's base parameters to make it on par with other weapons. That's what I did, but without Shadooow's patch, it wouldn't be possible.


 


However, I see how this argument doesn't apply that strongly when we consider the patch's usefulness to a player and not a builder.


 


Still, builders do stuff for players, so if a builder makes use of the patch's fixes, so will the players of that module.


Secondly, there are other reasons for players to want a working trident focus. A module they want to play might offer a powerful trident, so a player might decide to specialize in it, or they might simply want it for role-playing reasons.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_rogueknight333

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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 04:33:37 pm »


               


Helo! ok guys I need help..

1)There is only one character playing at a time? or u get plenty like in BG?

2)Is this game's combat only real time? or u can pause it like in BG? how exactle does the combat funtion? ...




 


Somewhat redundant answers at this point, but to answer in relation to the Baldur's Gate comparison specifically:


 


1) In NWN you have full control over only a single character, and this is perhaps the single greatest difference between it and BG. Various other companions (called "henchmen") may join you, in which case they will follow you around and attack hostiles, but you do not have full control over their behavior (they fight according to an AI just like hostile creatures, but on the other side), though you can sometimes converse with them to give them some general directives to guide their tactics. You also cannot control what feats, etc. they take when they level up. As a rule they fight rather stupidly, and make stupid choices when leveling up, which depending on how you look at it is either very annoying or adds to the challenge. NWN2 is better in this respect (although IMHO it is inferior to the original NWN in just about every other way), although its system for controlling henchmen is still kludgy and over-complicated compared to BG's.


 


2) The game's combat is real time with pause (at least in single player), essentially the same as in BG.


 


 




Well, there's always the cool factor or style points - especially for evil characters. The Swordflight companion, Harax the Half-Fiend, wields the Trident of the Hells...



 



 


You can easily give an NPC a Trident for the cool factor and then give him illegal bonuses to make up for Tridents being no good (which is what I do). It is of course possible, but more complicated, to do something similar for PCs.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tchos

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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2015, 04:47:25 pm »


               

NWN2 is better in this respect (although IMHO it is inferior to the original NWN in just about every other way), although its system for controlling henchmen is still kludgy and over-complicated compared to BG's.


 


I couldn't agree less.  As for the companions in particular (assuming when you say "henchmen", you're talking about the actual companions, and not the NWN1-style henchmen that rarely appear in NWN2), the system for controlling them is exactly like BG, with the added ability to specify up to 3 actions at once for each companion to execute in sequence (assuming you're using puppet mode and not having them do their own thing with AI).  To control a companion's actions (whether in or out of puppet mode), you click on the companion or the companion's portrait, and then you're in full control, to move, take action, access inventory, prepare or cast spells, level up and choose skills, feats, etc., just like in BG.  Very simple and straightforward.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_rogueknight333

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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2015, 04:38:14 pm »


               


I couldn't agree less...Very simple and straightforward.




 


I am a bit puzzled since these statements could be refuted by the following, a paragraph describing some of the complications NWN2 has added to the BG system:


 




...As for the companions in particular (assuming when you say "henchmen", you're talking about the actual companions, and not the NWN1-style henchmen that rarely appear in NWN2), the system for controlling them is exactly like BG, with the added ability to specify up to 3 actions at once for each companion to execute in sequence (assuming you're using puppet mode and not having them do their own thing with AI).  To control a companion's actions (whether in or out of puppet mode), you click on the companion or the companion's portrait, and then you're in full control, to move, take action, access inventory, prepare or cast spells, level up and choose skills, feats, etc., just like in BG...




 


NWN2 includes a bunch of options governing character behavior that allows one to set them up to operate on their own AIs,like NWN henchmen, to be fully controlled similarly to BG, and various things in between. Personally I find them to be confusing and offering no real advantages over the BG system (though as I said they are an improvement, so far as they go, over NWN1), though I suppose one could argue it is an advantage to give players these additional options. I would however have thought it self-evident that they make things more complicated.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tchos

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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2015, 06:30:51 pm »


               

It's not contradictory.  If you set it as I describe, it will behave exactly like as in BG.  That is simple and straightforward.  The fact that there are also other ways to set it does not make those BG-style settings complicated.  You can set it and forget it.