Author Topic: Do you cheat?  (Read 1524 times)

Legacy_helpthisguyplease

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Do you cheat?
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2014, 11:21:58 pm »


               


It wasn't the OC, and I was testing to see what the setting even did.  And the "hardest" setting is simply completely stupid -- it's insane at low levels (can easily get one or two shot) and completely irrelevant at higher levels.  It doesn't actually make it harder.


 


I mean, go play HotU and I doubt you'd ever even notice the "hardest" setting.


 


 


##DebugMode 1


## SetSTR 100


## SetDEX 100


## SetCON 100


## SetINT 100


## SetWIS 100


## SetCHA 100


##DebugMode 0


 


...that's "cheating," per se.




I am pretty sure that is way over what the game can take after 50 I guess you have bugs there because is hard coded at cap that I think is 50. 


               
               

               
            

Legacy_MrZork

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Do you cheat?
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2014, 12:17:36 pm »


               Most abilities seem to function pretty much as usual, even well over 50. (Many perfectly legal red dragon disciple builds can easily exceed 50 STR with items. Ditto for RDDs regarding INT, CHA, and WIS and elf and halflings with regard to DEX.) There is some point above which the game engine doesn't properly store or interpret ability scores and starts behaving bizarrely. I don't recall what that number is (probably 127 or 155, but it's been a long time), but I suspect that 100 may still work.

Regardless of whether those ability score numbers are all functional in the game, I think MM's point is that many would judge it to be cheating to set high ability scores by using the console. (One can debate that judgement, I suppose, but whether raising abilities to that degree is functional isn't the same issue as whether or not raising abilities is cheating.)
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jerkules17

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Do you cheat?
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2014, 12:30:28 pm »


               

Do what ever it takes to win...well that's how I go. ':bandit:' Still if it bothers you then don't do it. If the computer/enemy/etc is super cheap then get even,unless that's a crime. ':blink:'  ':police:'



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Do you cheat?
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2014, 06:03:22 pm »


               


LOL! Let's not get into another semantics discussion over whether cheating is meaningfully possible in single-player games.




 


If saying "break the rules provided by the author" makes people feel better, great.  I mean, I don't really care if you're playing Aielund for the 8th time and start with a level 5 character just so you can speed through it to see the story, it doesn't make you some sort of depraved morally bankrupt person, but it's still cheating.  Not a moral judgment, just a name for a behavior.


 




Who effin cares how a person plays in a single player mod? When there's other people involved, that's something to consider, but I'm a personal fan of play however the hell you please as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else.




 


Well, I put a lot of time into balancing/fine tuning my modules.  If someone plays my Siege of the Heavens, for example, and decides to spawn in custom gear or boost their stats, then they're throwing off the intended difficulty.  And that will then color their impressions and might affect how they view the module and review it on the vault.  I remember WebShaman talking about how he wanted to use the OMHS or whatever (henchman system) to have henchmen in the module (when none exist) which would have been a disaster due to specific aspects of the module...and if he then rates the module negatively as a result that's hardly fair to me.


 




I am pretty sure that is way over what the game can take after 50 I guess you have bugs there because is hard coded at cap that I think is 50. 




 


You can go up to 127 in stats, bugs start happening once you hit 128 or above in stats/AB/AC.  And encumbrance bugs out at 101 strength.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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Do you cheat?
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2014, 09:59:35 pm »


               

You can go up to 127 in stats, bugs start happening once you hit 128 or above in stats/AB/AC.  And encumbrance bugs out at 101 strength.



you can go up to 255, on high magic PW I used this number quite frequently to raise AB, and btw, community patch fixes the encumbrance bug



               
               

               
            

Legacy_icywind1980

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Do you cheat?
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2014, 10:05:22 am »


               


Well, I put a lot of time into balancing/fine tuning my modules.  If someone plays my Siege of the Heavens, for example, and decides to spawn in custom gear or boost their stats, then they're throwing off the intended difficulty.  And that will then color their impressions and might affect how they view the module and review it on the vault.  I remember WebShaman talking about how he wanted to use the OMHS or whatever (henchman system) to have henchmen in the module (when none exist) which would have been a disaster due to specific aspects of the module...and if he then rates the module negatively as a result that's hardly fair to me.




I just have to throw this out there - when you put up a mod for people to download than people are gonna do what they want with it. I for one don't give a crap about how the author intended for the mod to be played. If I don't like something about it,and it's in my power to change it, I'm gonna change it. Now of course I'm not gonna give the author a bad review because of something I changed in the module, I vote fair based on the mod as it was presented to me, and anyone who doesn't shouldn't be voting at all. But especially for games that disable base functions of the game like respawn. Screw the hell out of that. It's a game, not reality and I don't like my game to be over, just because some author decided that true to life rules are the only way to have fun.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Do you cheat?
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2014, 05:56:36 pm »


               


you can go up to 255, on high magic PW I used this number quite frequently to raise AB, and btw, community patch fixes the encumbrance bug




 


Looks like the stats can indeed go up to 255, but AB going above 127 still bugs out like crazy (having 128 AB will display as a negative).  Seems like stats are unsigned and AB/AC is signed?  And yes, the encumbrance can be fixed easily with changes to the 2da, that's not hardcoded.


 




Now of course I'm not gonna give the author a bad review because of something I changed in the module, I vote fair based on the mod as it was presented to me, and anyone who doesn't shouldn't be voting at all.




 


Well, that's mighty decent of you, but I know of people who would try to change something in a mod without ever playing it and then judge that changed module.


 




But especially for games that disable base functions of the game like respawn. Screw the hell out of that. It's a game, not reality and I don't like my game to be over, just because some author decided that true to life rules are the only way to have fun.




 


I don't understand this part -- can't you just reload a save?  Or do you mean non-NWN games that have "ironman" or "hardcore" rules or whatever?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MrZork

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« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2014, 06:10:09 pm »


               

LOL! Let's not get into another semantics discussion over whether cheating is meaningfully possible in single-player games.

If saying "break the rules provided by the author" makes people feel better, great.  I mean, I don't really care if you're playing Aielund for the 8th time and start with a level 5 character just so you can speed through it to see the story, it doesn't make you some sort of depraved morally bankrupt person, but it's still cheating.  Not a moral judgment, just a name for a behavior.

And that's why I said "semantics", because I was hoping to avoid the "there is no such thing as SP cheating and there never can be" argument that crops up from time to time. And, I am not one of those people who uses the term "semantics" to dismiss someone's point about definitions. Semantics are important; it's often the death of an intelligent discussion when people can't agree on what the words they are using mean or when people can't see that they aren't really disagreeing, but just using the same word in different ways.


As to the topic of whether people make changes that result in playing a module in a way the author didn't intend or anticipate, I tend to want to get the experience that the author intended. But, I change things to make the game play the way I want unless I think that would break what the module is supposed to be (and I read the author's descriptions, READMEs, or other info on the module to have some idea what the module is about). The success that approach will be a matter of degrees rather than boolean. That is, the two approaches aren't entirely compatible (the author couldn't possibly have prepared his module for every customization any player might apply) but they aren't completely at odds either (there are plenty of changes that don't really significantly change the overall experience of the module). So, how much a customization I do and how much it changes the play experience will vary.

For instance, in the notes for Sands of Fate, the author mentions that he has written the secret door checks to give a bonus to PCs who have true sight. But, since it's easy to check if a toon has the true seeing effect from a spell and somewhat less easy to check if he has it from an item, he only checks for spell-based true sight. To his credit, he makes potions that give the spell effect pretty easy to get. However, if I decided that I don't want my toon who gets TS from an item property (perhaps from one of the several polymorphs that have it) to need to haul around more consumables, I might rewrite that script to do the additional item-property check and play the module that way. It is a change that the author knew was possible and didn't decide to incorporate, so I am not playing exactly the way he intended, but I don't think it ruins the module.

On the other hand, if I decided that my toon will have access to a custom spell that provides an aura with reciprocal damage shield of 2 x caster level divine damage and +20 shield AC versus evil, then that is making a change that will very significantly change the game play and balance for the module. That's not a change I would make.

And, in either case, if I were rating the module, I wouldn't complain that the module author didn't accommodate my desired customizations or that his module was too easy or too hard when it's likely some change I made had an impact on difficulty.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_icywind1980

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« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2014, 11:11:38 pm »


               


 


I don't understand this part -- can't you just reload a save?  Or do you mean non-NWN games that have "ironman" or "hardcore" rules or whatever?




I guess if I wanted to lose whatever progress I had made in the game until that point. If I respawn I lose exp and gold, not valuable RL time that I won't get back by playing it all over again. Sure I could just keep hitting the quick save key, but yeah there goes that precious immersion right out the window, when I keep having to worry about losing my progress.


 


But I don't actually have to ever worry about this. I know exactly how to put respawn options back in.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2014, 12:03:18 am »


               

The question then has to be what about those modules where part of the immersion is brought about by the tension deliberately induced in say a ravenloft module, by the author turning off respawning?


 


TR



               
               

               
            

Legacy_SKIPPNUTTZ

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« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2014, 05:52:30 am »


               


Looks like the stats can indeed go up to 255, but AB going above 127 still bugs out like crazy (having 128 AB will display as a negative).  Seems like stats are unsigned and AB/AC is signed?  And yes, the encumbrance can be fixed easily with changes to the 2da, that's not hardcoded.


 




MM,  AB overflow doesn't have any noticeable effects except in combat log display. My monk/wm with ~165ab prints -101 for first attack but I still maintain 95% hit chance. And as far as I  can tell the same can be said for overflowing skill checks in the combat log. Even with 127 concentration overflowing the result, it still passed the check internally. Saving throws on the other hand don't. Some quirky stuff with the upper boundaries of this game.


 


Does anyone know anything about what kind of anomalies can be produced by dealing too much damage cause the char im planning atm will probably be something around 30k-50k dmg from 1 attack?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_SKIPPNUTTZ

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« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2014, 05:53:40 am »


               


you can go up to 255, on high magic PW I used this number quite frequently to raise AB, and btw, community patch fixes the encumbrance bug




 And for example if you have a leto'd char with 255 str and then use Bull's STR/Greater Bull's STR to raise it higher, what is the result?


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2014, 06:53:11 pm »


               

@ SKIPPNUTTZ you do realise that the stats that you are talking about are greater (by a looong shot) than the vast majority of deities in D&D, don't you? And I'm not talking avatars here.


 


TR



               
               

               
            

Legacy_SKIPPNUTTZ

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« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2014, 01:46:43 am »


               

Yes. Deities and D&D are overrated. Speakin @ those with education in the upper limits of aurora, or to others with similar experience in highend game worlds with level 1000+ servervault characters.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2014, 04:32:37 am »


               


 And for example if you have a leto'd char with 255 str and then use Bull's STR/Greater Bull's STR to raise it higher, what is the result?




i dont know i used this only for NPCs i suppose there be another rollback with possible encumbrance issue