Why do NWN modders avoid NWN2

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               

I think we gave answers to the question why some NWN modders avoid nwn2. It´s a different game with different ways how to do content or to build adventures.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Neverwinter_Knight77]

               The NWN 2 toolset was not as "user friendly" in my experience.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Frith5]

               

You are mistaken about my intent.  I was not suggesting that modders abandon NWN in favor of NWN2.  What I see is two communities of modders both spending their time trying to increase the community content for two aging games.  Unlike the games before them, like BG and IWD, NWN and NWN2 included actual toolsets that could be used to dissect and learn and produce.  From what I understand the toolsets that have been released for more recent games are lacking in capabilities and so that leaves NWN and NWN2 in a special place.  Some people have a foot firmly in both communities and some do not. Some, like me, have played both games but only mod one. And many, it seems, avoid one or the other completely.

 

I remember pre-ordering NWN. As a Mac owner I recall being ecstatic that they announced simultaneous platform release on Windows, Mac, and Linux. I couldn't wait to get my hands on it.  But it turned out that they lied. It was only released on Windows and the Windows laptop I had for work couldn't run it. I then had to wait for the Mac version to be released and pay for that separately.  I remember being very disappointed and feeling ripped off and I suppose I could have just turned my back on the whole thing, but instead I played it, purchased multiple copies and the expansions, and enjoyed it.  When NWN2 was announced I had no delusions of it being multi-platform and knew what I was getting. So I stuck with it.  After modding NWN2 a while I did start looking at the NWN toolset and I found it to be less than satisfying.

 

What I was hoping to learn from the thread was more along the lines of what resources might be lacking that would allow modders to more readily cross between these two worlds, or even develop things that would work in both NWN and NWN2.  Ways we could improve modding for all of us using NWN and NWN2.

 

That was my intent.

 

Regards

That's more clear to me now, and it's really a pretty straightforward question at that: What can be done to promote cross-platform modding? (Er, IS that it?) I think it's a great idea, tbh. Well, my suggestion would be compiling tutorials that illustrate just the kinds of content that can (easily) work for both games, or adapt from one to the other. Directly adapting placeables from NWN2 to NWN has been ocurring almost since release. Likewise, I've seen many creature models adapted from NWN to NWN2. Gathering this sort of information into a single repository might be useful to get people thinking. I think it'd be cool to see content makes cooperate that way.

 

By the way, my own history with the two games is quite similar to yours. In fact, I watched all the development of NWN since I first learned of the project, and when it was nearing release I bought a new computer just to be able to run it! Years later, when NWN2 released, the same thing! I bought new computers for two D&D games! lol

               
               

               
            

[Legacy__Guile]

               I have two words for you.....


Time Loss
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Snowdog65]

               

the graphics: both games are horribly outdated by todays standards. but personally, the graphical level of nwn 2 (and that whole era of early normal mapped games) just looks the worst nowadays. i do in fact believe, that nwn looks better than nwn2. nwn has reached the point, where it just looks oldschool. nwn 2 instead looks like something from deep inside the uncanny valley.

 

Just another player perspective. I am giving NWN2 one last play before deleting it off my computer.

 

I feel pretty much the same. NWN2 just never worked for me.  It doesn't really look better for me. It looks weirder.  The animations in NWN2 all seem much worse than in NWN. Walking/running speed of legs doesn't seem to match ground covered. Combat animation seems to vary between merely having nothing to do with your hits and not happening at all. Which gives me the suspicion that elemental weapons create giant fireballs to obscure it.

 

 

NWN seems like a nearly ideal constructor kit for old school PnP adventures. Areas seem potentially much larger than NWN2 areas, which feels more constricted or require many more load screens. NWN2 makes for a more disconnected feel.

 

I feel like if you had a map you were using to create a game. In NWN you would just put the whole thing in there. Sure there would be a lot of empty areas if wanted to wander everywhere, but you could if you wanted to. In NWN2 I think you would create 10 small disconnected areas from that map that you could go to. The former has a much better feel to me, that latter feels artificial and constricting.

 

That is the feel I get from playing OC/Mods of both NWN/NWN2.  IMO NWN2 traded away too much, just for a more 3d landscape.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tchos]

               

Area size in NWN2 is up to 32x32 walkable tiles in both interiors and exteriors, except exterior "tiles" are megatiles of 4 tiles each.  Exteriors are surrounded by an additional 8 tile wide border all around, which is unwalkable but can be landscaped to provide continuity with other areas.  I'm pretty sure that comes out to 332 km² of walkable area in an exterior (82,038 acres).

 

My frequent complaint about locations in NWN2 is the opposite of yours, Snowdog.  I find them too often too colossal for what they're supposed to be.  Some people build dungeons where 1 square on the map = 1 tile in the game, but most D&D maps (at least for classic dungeons) use a 5 foot scale for each square (1.5 metres, 2.3 square metres), whereas a tile in NWN2 is 9 metres (81 square metres).

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Kaldor Silverwand]

               The NWN2 OC certainly has many exterior areas which seem smaller than they should because of what you might call a look-but-don't-touch design choice. Many areas have broad walkable paths but rest of the area is completely blocked. This design prevents wandering around, as was possible in the NWN OC exterior areas. I have no inside track on the reasoning for this design choice, but my guess is that it has to do with a major difference between the games being that NWN2 fully supports both multi-player parties and single-player parties, whereas In NWN you basically have only 1 or 2 unless playing multi-player.  When you have a large party tromping around an area you are far more likely to encounter pathing problems or have characters get stuck on placeables. By restricting the exploratory parts of an area you reduce that risk. It is a design choice, though, not an engine limitation. I ha e taken several of the NWN2 OC areas and repurposed them exposing more of their walkable areas.


Regards
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_rjshae]

               

NWN seems like a nearly ideal constructor kit for old school PnP adventures. Areas seem potentially much larger than NWN2 areas, which feels more constricted or require many more load screens. NWN2 makes for a more disconnected feel.

 

I'm rather puzzled by this because I feel quite the opposite. NWN2 can allow for absolutely enormous areas, at least compared to my experiences with the NWN toolset. But there are good module development reasons for keeping areas smaller. Perhaps it is the plethora of placeables used in NWN2 that make it feel smaller to you? Most of the stock NWN tiles feel a little barren to me.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_brothschild]

               

I've always thought NWN2 sucked. The gameplay, character customization restrictions, camera, multiplayer... and I wasn't able to figure out the toolset. The original NWN was the only game where I ever managed to learn the toolset.

 

2 hours was all I could take of that camera.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Snowdog65]

               

The NWN2 OC certainly has many exterior areas which seem smaller than they should because of what you might call a look-but-don't-touch design choice.

 

Could be. Everything I have played in NWN2 felt like smaller restricted areas, with long load times between them.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tchos]

               

As I explained, the toolset supports gigantic areas.  Whatever ones you played do not represent limitations of the toolset as you suggested they do.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Snowdog65]

               

As I explained, the toolset supports gigantic areas.  Whatever ones you played do not represent limitations of the toolset as you suggested they do.

 

Are there any modules with this big areas? I wonder if there are secondary reasons for them seemingly not showing up in game.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tchos]

               

Are there any modules with this big areas? I wonder if there are secondary reasons for them seemingly not showing up in game.

 

No doubt.  Even the OC had Mount Galardrym, which was 32x24.  I couldn't tell you where to look for more, since as I said, my impression is the opposite.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_werelynx]

               

Question: As a player I turned on NWN2 long time ago and camera control was abominable. I would like to have the bird-view in-game. Is it possible with patches/mods/hacks?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tchos]

               

There is no mode called "bird-view", but this is "exploration mode" at its furthest distance.  My game is running the final 1.23 patch, with no camera mods.

• Exploration 1 (interior)


• Exploration 2 (exterior)


• Exploration 3 (exterior)